Flipper alert

[Midsummer]

yeah what makes a Kato good isnt the steel IMO, it's the grind, weight and the profile. really just the best Ive ever gotten my hands on wrt those 3 things. JMO though. that said, I make more on my index funds on a good day than Id make selling my Kato for a profit, so I dont really understand the whole trying to make money flipping a knife or two here. if you want to make money, Id imagine you'd have to do retail volume, but then you'd be in retail

Yes I like Toyama/denka steel better but Kato grind/weight distribution is really brilliant. It feels so natural and comfortable (thick and super wide neck) in the hand, and using Kato for up-down chopping almost feels like using a Chinese cleaver which is up-down chopping champion IMHO. The reactivity of the cladding is too crazy for humid summer so now it's my winter knife.

These quotes remind me that many of the guys here have full time jobs and families. With all that responsibility they can only devote a few hours a week in the kitchen cutting product for their families, unless they are in the business or throwing food away.

There really is not enough time to try all the knives for long enough to truly understand the differences. I mean how many nights do you cut multiple proteins and multiple vegetables?

I admire the drive to understand the differences between the Toyama, Denka, Kato, honyaki? western?

But which flipper were we talking about?

 

[user 16756]

These quotes remind me that many of the guys here have full time jobs and families. With all that responsibility they can only devote a few hours a week in the kitchen cutting product for their families, unless they are in the business or throwing food away.

There really is not enough time to try all the knives for long enough to truly understand the differences. I mean how many nights do you cut multiple proteins and multiple vegetables?

I admire the drive to understand the differences between the Toyama, Denka, Kato, honyaki? western?

But which flipper were we talking about?

full time job here (not in a kitchen), and had to cook for a picky eater. that said, I stare at a screen all day, so for me cooking every night is a bit of an escape/stress blow off.

in my case Ive had some of my knives for more than half a decade and put a lot of miles on them in that time. in that time the number of people in my house has ranged from 1 to 4 so I have had periods of cutting loads of stuff up.

and some of it is just like, if you use a knife for a month you'll know whether it works for the things you like to use a knife for. if a knife wedges in apples or cracks carrots, it wont work for me. also when you thin knives you learn a LOT about them. but then Im also saying I better understand the differences in grinds, balance, weight, etc. than I personally do for edge retention. Im in the camp of folks who cant really tell one steel from another on the board.

 

[Midsummer]

Great Hobby and flippers harsh the vibe....

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

These quotes remind me that many of the guys here have full time jobs and families. With all that responsibility they can only devote a few hours a week in the kitchen cutting product for their families, unless they are in the business or throwing food away.

There really is not enough time to try all the knives for long enough to truly understand the differences. I mean how many nights do you cut multiple proteins and multiple vegetables?

I admire the drive to understand the differences between the Toyama, Denka, Kato, honyaki? western?

But which flipper were we talking about?

Not a pro here but I’m guilty for throwing food away. I’ve been working from home for a couple of years (yea even before the pandemic) and I’ve been cooking 1-2 times a day (my wife doesn’t cook). Cutting and sharpening is sometimes just a break for me during the day work so I threw away a lot carrots, potatoes and onions. I shared some videos showing me cutting giant carrots and other produce before but I’m ashamed to admit there are a lot more than that. I make video for almost every knife I got but I won’t share it if the knife doesn’t cut well (maybe with exception to one that compares denka and konosuke FM for giant carrots). Also thinning knife help me understand the limit of the steel. My first Kato WH is 10 gram lighter in a year. And there are some others that I’ve removed 10+ grams steel from. And reprofile, regind, rehandle. It’s just fun. At this point if I don’t like a knife I just sell it. Like you said I already too many knives to make enough use of them. Maybe after I use the current set for a couple of more years a lot of my point of views will change.

 

[Hockey3081]

So this died down and I assume the main character this centered around hasn’t been able to sell his stuff like he had hoped. I think a lot of the agitation here was because of how shady his wording was.

Knife just got posted to BST. So my question is how people here feel when a member isn’t a d-bag and posts previous sale links for transparency including the one where the current knife was likely purchased for at least $250 less than the current seller’s price. Is it an “acceptable” flip because of the transparency and if he doesn’t sell, then he doesn’t sell? Or is a flip a flip a flip and truly frowned upon regardless of how transparent the seller is?

 

[KnightKnightForever]

So this died down and I assume the main character this centered around hasn’t been able to sell his stuff like he had hoped. I think a lot of the agitation here was because of how shady his wording was.

Knife just got posted to BST. So my question is how people here feel when a member isn’t a d-bag and posts previous sale links for transparency including the one where the current knife was likely purchased for at least $250 less than the current seller’s price. Is it an “acceptable” flip because of the transparency and if he doesn’t sell, then he doesn’t sell? Or is a flip a flip a flip and truly frowned upon regardless of how transparent the seller is?

I’m selling it at that price because that’s what it sold for in the first sale, and in the second sale he seemed to be in a hurry. If no one wants to buy at $1350, I’ll be more than willing to come down. Seems a little dramatic to rush here to post this 15 minutes after my posting, though.

 

[Hockey3081]

I’m selling it at that price because that’s what it sold for in the first sale, and in the second sale he seemed to be in a hurry. If no one wants to buy at $1350, I’ll be more than willing to come down. Seems a little dramatic to rush here to post this 15 minutes after my posting, though.

There’s a reason I didn’t post the link because people could look if they wanted to. I was genuinely curious and was clear that you were more than transparent which was the polar opposite of what kept this thread going for days.


EDIT: Got a PM from someone and wanted to make sure that I didn’t bring this up to incite anything or slam the seller (hence why I didn’t provide the link or make the knife). I really wanted to know what the line was here because it almost got blurred since the other fella created his own reputation which is likely to cause at least some biases.

 

[M1k3]

There’s a reason I didn’t post the link because people could look if they wanted to. I was genuinely curious and was clear that you were more than transparent which was the polar opposite of what kept this thread going for days.


EDIT: Got a PM from someone and wanted to make sure that I didn’t bring this up to incite anything or slam the seller (hence why I didn’t provide the link or make the knife). I really wanted to know what the line was here because it almost got blurred since the other fella created his own reputation which is likely to cause at least some biases.

Little backstory on the recent seller (not KnightyNightForever) that everyone was up in arms about.

Made BST post, high price.
People complained.
Seller raised price.
Offered discount for cooks
People complained.
Mod(s) stepped in.
Seller doubled down.
People complained.

Now he's trying again

 

[WiriWiri]

There’s a reason I didn’t post the link because people could look if they wanted to. I was genuinely curious and was clear that you were more than transparent which was the polar opposite of what kept this thread going for days.


EDIT: Got a PM from someone and wanted to make sure that I didn’t bring this up to incite anything or slam the seller (hence why I didn’t provide the link or make the knife). I really wanted to know what the line was here because it almost got blurred since the other fella created his own reputation which is likely to cause at least some biases.

I don’t think most would have a problem with that - it’s convenient enough for all but the most lethargic of buyers to click on the links and take an appropriate, informed course of action. No hoodwinking funny business here.

It does make me feel a little less warm and fuzzy about KnightKnightF, but he can live with some of my minor karmic angst given his positive kickstarter antics elsewhere. He’s no flipping villain, nor a very good conman In waiting with that transparency lark. I’d reckon I’d take him in poker for sure.

 

[LostHighway]

Knife just got posted to BST. So my question is how people here feel when a member isn’t a d-bag and posts previous sale links for transparency including the one where the current knife was likely purchased for at least $250 less than the current seller’s price. Is it an “acceptable” flip because of the transparency and if he doesn’t sell, then he doesn’t sell? Or is a flip a flip a flip and truly frowned upon regardless of how transparent the seller is?

As you are probably aware there are no formal rules regarding pricing here. You'll get almost as many different answers regarding what is right or acceptable as the number of people you ask. I will, however, say that that there is some sense of genuine community among many of the people who have been active on KKF for several years. Read that as you will.

 

[WiriWiri]

Little backstory on the recent seller (not KnightyNightForever) that everyone was up in arms about.

Made BST post, high price.
People complained.
Seller raised price.
Offered discount for cooks
People complained.
Mod(s) stepped in.
Seller doubled down.
People complained.

Now he's trying again

That guy is a panto villain, but one day I fear he might find a weak link, some patsy new to the game (or me just back from the pub)

 

[WiriWiri]

As you are probably aware there are no formal rules regarding pricing here. You'll get almost as many different answers regarding what is right, or acceptable as the number of people you ask. I will, however, say that that there is some sense of genuine community among many of the people who have been active on KKF for several years. Read that as you will.

I didn’t take it as cynical, more a bit silly - I think KnightKnight just likes to natter. It invites bartering down to the previous price, which I’m far too British to do ffs. BST is not a bazaar!
<snorts and puts cup of tea down extra hard>

 

[Delat]

So this died down and I assume the main character this centered around hasn’t been able to sell his stuff like he had hoped. I think a lot of the agitation here was because of how shady his wording was.

Knife just got posted to BST. So my question is how people here feel when a member isn’t a d-bag and posts previous sale links for transparency including the one where the current knife was likely purchased for at least $250 less than the current seller’s price. Is it an “acceptable” flip because of the transparency and if he doesn’t sell, then he doesn’t sell? Or is a flip a flip a flip and truly frowned upon regardless of how transparent the seller is?

Seems like he’s selling it at market rate with full transparency and an accurate description vs 2x market price with a misleading description. I’m not even raising an eyebrow.

 

[KnightKnightForever]

I bought a lot of knives recently to use and try, and the ones I don’t prefer I’m going to list here over the next month or two. I’m pretty keen on keeping a smaller, targeted collection vs a larger collection. So if it looks like flipping, I’m sorry. But, in reality I just want to own 4-5 vs. 10. Just for the sake of being on the up and up, however, I brought the price of the knife down.

 

[esoo]

Little backstory on the recent seller (not KnightyNightForever) that everyone was up in arms about.

Made BST post, high price.
People complained.
Seller raised price.
Offered discount for cooks
People complained.
Mod(s) stepped in.
Seller doubled down.
People complained.

Now he's trying again

You're missing the part where vendors/makers have also commented that there have been some dealings with said seller that have not gone as expected.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

I was genuinely curious and was clear that you were more than transparent which was the polar opposite of what kept this thread going for days.

I think there are 3 types of opinions here,

A. Flipping is flipping, with or without transparent information, and flipping should not be encouraged. After all this is a "flipper alert" thread, not a "shady wording alert" or "scammer alert" thread.

B. As long as the selling price and the transaction is fair, profits should be allowed. The fair price is usually determined by the retailor price or commonly seen BST price, whichever is more prevalent (the rarer the item, the more likely it's the BST price). Some of these type don't consider themselves flippers even if the knife is being sold for a $200 profit within 2 months from the purchase.

C. This is a free market and people should have rights to buy/sell at any price and the market will determine what a fair price is. We just need to make sure the market is working properly (transparent and accurate information, anti-scam, etc.).

I think type B is the majority here by itself and plus type A takes B as an acceptable compromise so B is dominating this thread and the forum. C opinion is criticized because some believe without free negative comments, the market is not really "free" and cannot work properly. Some of type C argue that it is the buyer's responsibility to do the due diligence. Some of type C (like myself) suggests to add additional BST rules to ensure a fully informed transaction (like showing the proof/source of purchase).

 

[Rangen]

I think there are 3 types of opinions here,

4.

D. True members of the community can make their own best judgment about how to price their knives, and should be left alone. Parasites who are here to prey on the community deserve scorn and anything else that comes their way.

I admit that sorting that out may be beyond what can be accomplished with rules. But since it is just an opinion, it doesn't need to bear that burden.

 

[TSF415]

I see no issue. My two issues with flippers in the past have been.

One member getting dirt cheap deals on bst and then reselling for a much higher price. He wasn’t doing anything wrong. I only called attention to that one because I thought people should be aware of not giving out great deals to the community if someone is just going to use it to profit.

and the other and more recent was what seemed like a fairly deceiving post riding the coattails of a mass drop.

 

[Hz_zzzzzz]

4.

D. True members of the community can make their own best judgment about how to price their knives, and should be left alone. Parasites who are here to prey on the community deserve scorn and anything else that comes their way.

I admit that sorting that out may be beyond what can be accomplished with rules. But since it is just an opinion, it doesn't need to bear that burden.

I think your D is just Type B confusing the activity of flipping with dishonest selling, which surely deserves being calling out but not because it’s flipping.

 

[Hockey3081]

All good perspectives fellas. I think the testament to the difference between this scenario (which again, I tried to show the dichotomy of scenarios) is the civility in the opinions given. Gives me some proof that the aforementioned villain created his own bed. Extra chuckles for bumping that Kamon production knife thread recently.

 

[Bico Doce]

I’m big cycling fan and in the sport (as well as others) there are some unwritten rules that are generally adhered as a sign of sportsmanship and respect, such as not attacking when the race leader is taking a piss.

It would seem that BST may have some unwritten rules - such as buying a knife and turning it around for a modest profit in a relatively short time.

I would love to hear some other “unwritten” rules by those who have BST’ing for a while

 

[tostadas]

I’m big cycling fan and in the sport (as well as others) there are some unwritten rules that are generally adhered as a sign of sportsmanship and respect, such as not attacking when the race leader is taking a piss.

It would seem that BST may have some unwritten rules - such as buying a knife and turning it around for a modest profit in a relatively short time.

I would love to hear some other “unwritten” rules by those who have BST’ing for a while

I generally frown upon those that force patinas by peeing on their knives.

 

[Bico Doce]

I generally frown upon those that force patinas by peeing on their knives.

Noted! That explains why my knives aren’t selling…

 

[Delat]

I’m big cycling fan and in the sport (as well as others) there are some unwritten rules that are generally adhered as a sign of sportsmanship and respect, such as not attacking when the race leader is taking a piss.

It would seem that BST may have some unwritten rules - such as buying a knife and turning it around for a modest profit in a relatively short time.

I would love to hear some other “unwritten” rules by those who have BST’ing for a while

Somehow I was hearing this post in a British context and was wondering why the leader would be telling jokes during a race and also why others in the race would want to attack him for taking the piss.

 

[user 16756]

my recommendation to folks who are thinking about posting about a BST listing in this thread is to ask yourself the question "is this a pattern?"

 

[Bico Doce]

Somehow I was hearing this post in a British context and was wondering why the leader would be telling jokes during a race and also why others in the race would want to attack him for taking the piss.

Apologies! I have heard that phrase on British television more than once but failed to realize the double meaning behind my post

 

[Luftmensch]

taking a piss.

taking the piss.

Youve got it... the (in)definite article plays an important role in disambiguation.

I remember in one Tour, there was some charity type raffle where you could win one of the contenders bikes.... I am not sure how authentic they wanted the experience to be... presumably the bike got a good hosing down. Or perhaps it was an unused spare... or a steed from a shorter leg

 

[Mikeadunne]

Is no one gonna make a pee-tina joke?!

 

[Luftmensch]

Is no one gonna make a pee-tina joke?!

Ive been known to tinkle around with humour. I had a wee one in mind... but honestly... Im not a whizz at making puns.

 

[ian]