Flipper alert

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Jville said:
The Kilgoretrout guy is flipping handles like he made them and admitted it?
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Exactly. As stated by Mr šŸŸ

"I dont know if This is kosher(the mods are very nice but also seem particular about the rules) but I just made some 100% horn handles that came out really nice so Iā€™m making more that should be ready in about a month. I attached a short clip of the last one I made, but I also do wood with horn ferrules. If interested pm me and I can show you examples of lots of handles Iā€™ve made."
 
Rangen said:
In case anyone is inclined to credit his claim that he did not edit the post, here is the original text:
====
Up for sale is a wa handle I finished but havenā€™t found a project for yet. Rosewood burl with a blonde horn spacer and a black horn ferrule.

All measurements metric
L: 138
W at base: 24.13
W at top: 22.53
Tang hole width: 11.71
Hole depth: 62
Weight: 52 grams
$140.00 usd shipped world wide
====
I had left it open in a tab last night, because it seemed off to me, and I wanted another look in the cold light of day.
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I also thought something was wrong as the description has the ferrule and spacer descriptions the wrong way round
 
Corradobrit1 said:
Exactly. As stated by Mr šŸŸ

"I dont know if This is kosher(the mods are very nice but also seem particular about the rules) but I just made some 100% horn handles that came out really nice so Iā€™m making more that should be ready in about a month. I attached a short clip of the last one I made, but I also do wood with horn ferrules. If interested pm me and I can show you examples of lots of handles Iā€™ve made."
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Your persistence is admirable - I think we can establish a pattern of deception and more than few porky pies along the way. Sadly Iā€™m not Judge Judy and my marsupial powers in this kangaroo court are strictly limited. I guess the warning is here on the appropriate flipper thread and that this popcorn-munching mob should be sated

But at the same time Iā€˜m still a bit bemused by the whole brutal editing thing on the original Rosewood/Redwood handle thread.There used to be a dramatic confession of flipperdom and the source of the handles on there from the seller, complete with a splendid justification of his actions (capitalism entitled him to pay $30 here in the hope of flipping basically) May have been misguided, but it was the sellerā€™s choice to espouse those fine capitalist brand values, plus all the aggression and snideness seemed to come in his rant. Seemed a perfect end really - posters had been civil to him until that point, skirting around the BST rules about value, mainly by asking pertinent questions - and now any buyer could make an informed choice, signposted on the very sales thread for convenience.

But now all thatā€˜s been wiped off, along with the easy link to this thread, so the ā€™villainā€™ of the piece basically gets to keep his somewhat carefully worded, some would say misleading ad on there. Those questions that exposed that he was clueless at woodwork and gave duff advice that would lead to bad results have all gone. Heā€™s basically free to keep fishing in the hope of hooking some unfortunate with his misleading bait

Now Iā€˜m far from a paragon of high principles, but even my piss-tentacles quiver a little at the injustice of that one. I appreciate that the mods want a consistent, manageable approach to modding BST and that any buyer should take care in purchasing, but this does seem an arse about tit result that stacks the cards in favour of bad actors. I do expect the buyer to take precautions, but at the same time I donā€˜t expect the authorities to effectively give the perp a leg up and a memory/evidence-wiping device to have a second crack.

šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø
 
Corradobrit1 said:
Especially when the descriptions are full of deliberate falsehoods ie burl rosewood vs redwood, to attract a higher price. Surely the mods should insist the ad is corrected if allowed to stand.
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If you doing blatantly devious stuff, you shouldnā€™t even be allowed to post in BST. Why is it allowed to be a playground for liars and thieves?
 
Man, he didnt even last a single week, and only little more than a page on this thread. That's too bad. Wonder how long we'll have to wait til the next one. Bets anyone?
 
WiriWiri said:
Your persistence is admirable - I think we can establish a pattern of deception and more than few porky pies along the way. Sadly Iā€™m not Judge Judy and my marsupial powers in this kangaroo court are strictly limited. I guess the warning is here on the appropriate flipper thread and that this popcorn-munching mob should be sated

But at the same time Iā€˜m still a bit bemused by the whole brutal editing thing on the original Rosewood/Redwood handle thread.There used to be a dramatic confession of flipperdom and the source of the handles on there from the seller, complete with a splendid justification of his actions (capitalism entitled him to pay $30 here in the hope of flipping basically) May have been misguided, but it was the sellerā€™s choice to espouse those fine capitalist brand values, plus all the aggression and snideness seemed to come in his rant. Seemed a perfect end really - posters had been civil to him until that point, skirting around the BST rules about value, mainly by asking pertinent questions - and now any buyer could make an informed choice, signposted on the very sales thread for convenience.

But now all thatā€˜s been wiped off, along with the easy link to this thread, so the ā€™villainā€™ of the piece basically gets to keep his somewhat carefully worded, some would say misleading ad on there. Those questions that exposed that he was clueless at woodwork and gave duff advice that would lead to bad results have all gone. Heā€™s basically free to keep fishing in the hope of hooking some unfortunate with his misleading bait

Now Iā€˜m far from a paragon of high principles, but even my piss-tentacles quiver a little at the injustice of that one. I appreciate that the mods want a consistent, manageable approach to modding BST and that any buyer should take care in purchasing, but this does seem an arse about tit result that stacks the cards in favour of bad actors. I do expect the buyer to take precautions, but at the same time I donā€˜t expect the authorities to effectively give the perp a leg up and a memory/evidence-wiping device to have a second crack.

šŸ¤·ā€ā™‚ļø
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Very well said. I agree with pretty much all your points, and you express yourself in a way that is fun to read, even with serious points.

My biggest issue is that there's this both sidesism that gives way too much support to bad actors than our community members (many of them longstanding and/or regular contributors who have earned respect) who are trying to point out the bad actor. This case worked out in the end with a ban, but it took a fair amount of time and effort to make it happen. And quite a bit of mod involvement.

To add to having open discussion and transparency, and reduce mod workload, I suggest starting a new thread with a more intuitive title for "BST Transaction Discussions." Pin it to the top of the BST section. (I'd put it in the knife sales section, a similar thread could started in the non-knife section, but I care more about knife sales overall.) While this "Flipper Alert" thread has been tremendously useful, sales concerns go beyond mere flipping. Intentionally deceitful posts or even flat out lies are a far bigger issues, and it's currently not easy to call them out. The actual sales threads would stay "clean."
 
toddnmd said:
Very well said. I agree with pretty much all your points, and you express yourself in a way that is fun to read, even with serious points.

My biggest issue is that there's this both sidesism that gives way too much support to bad actors than our community members (many of them longstanding and/or regular contributors who have earned respect) who are trying to point out the bad actor. This case worked out in the end with a ban, but it took a fair amount of time and effort to make it happen. And quite a bit of mod involvement.

To add to having open discussion and transparency, and reduce mod workload, I suggest starting a new thread with a more intuitive title for "BST Transaction Discussions." Pin it to the top of the BST section. (I'd put it in the knife sales section, a similar thread could started in the non-knife section, but I care more about knife sales overall.) While this "Flipper Alert" thread has been tremendously useful, sales concerns go beyond mere flipping. Intentionally deceitful posts or even flat out lies are a far bigger issues, and it's currently not easy to call them out. The actual sales threads would stay "clean."
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Having been a moderator on more than one large forum I can say it is a tough job. The masses often demand swift action but all too often there is some gray that the general public doesn't have to be careful of but the mod staff needs to consider. They don't want to ban folks without being sure and if anyone of us were on the reverse end and it was genuinely a misunderstanding, we'd appreciate that diligence.

More often than not, the situations will sort themselves out fairly quickly.

Don't forget to use the "report" function on sales posts that you think need to be reviewed. My experience has been that the KKF staff react to reports pretty quickly.
 
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Mod hat on.

As mentioned above, bans are not done lightly. They're not something anyone wants to do and no one mod is going to ban anyone without a consult with the others. And it is somewhat intentional that mods live in different parts of the world.

Reporting something amiss is the quickest way to get mod's attention. BST is certainly the sub that requires the most mod attention and speaking for myself, if I see a thread that I'm not interested in then I may check that it initially complies with the rules but I'm not going to follow it unless something is reported. And for the most part the members here are great about reporting when things go wrong.

The whole process may seem (and may be) slow but we're pedaling as fast as we can.

Mod hat off. Bad jokes to follow.
 
tostadas said:
I found a pic of that guy's 60mm depth handle with a blade in it. Popped up on my reddit feed. Super machi gap.
edit: I just noticed the black glove too, to suggest that he actually made some part of it.
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He has a similar one for sale for 300 bucks, I'm sure this one cost the same. In the 300 dollar price range I don't even know how this competes
 
Greasylake said:
He has a similar one for sale for 300 bucks, I'm sure this one cost the same. In the 300 dollar price range I don't even know how this competes
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The one he has for sale looks to be the same thing. He mentions in his post that it's just a custom cut blank. So essentially $50 heat treated blank + $50 handle + questionable grind = $300. But he says he makes and "forges" 100% of the knife. Though in reality, I think it would be a stretch to think he's even improving the blank with his grinding (who knows if heat treat is ruined in the process).
 
tostadas said:
But he says he makes and "forges" 100% of the knife.
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2AC20478-A1D4-437D-BC58-A7592E978D2A.jpeg
 
tostadas said:
I found a pic of that guy's 60mm depth handle with a blade in it. Popped up on my reddit feed. Super machi gap.
edit: I just noticed the black glove too, to suggest that he actually made some part of it.
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Wow. Putting your maker's mark on the blade road. That's thinking ahead.

I see he's decided to keep it concise with only the asterisk, though. Classy touch.
 
WPerry said:
Wow. Putting your maker's mark on the blade road. That's thinking ahead.

I see he's decided to keep it concise with only the asterisk, though. Classy touch.
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At least he's not plagiarizing some other makers logo/text this time around.
 
Corradobrit1 said:
At least he's not plagiarizing some other makers logo/text this time around.
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Given every other aspect of the knifemaking he's taken credit for that he has no idea how to actually do himself, I wouldn't be surprised if he got the logo screened on by the guy selling counterfeit NFL t-shirts next to the gas station.
 
WPerry said:
Wow. Putting your maker's mark on the blade road. That's thinking ahead.

I see he's decided to keep it concise with only the asterisk, though. Classy touch.
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I called that guy out for putting the MM on the grind when he posted it on whatever social media. He was very defensive. Just could not understand why it was a terrible idea.
 
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