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Perzua

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Hello,

Please recommend me two - three stones for my blues and whites. Price is not a issue but I dont want naturals.

Jiro
Wat nakiri pro

S&G or soakers it does not matter. I think about 1000 and 4000 - 8000 for microbevel and for burr.

PS. something for flatting

best,
 
There are so many possible preferences here. We're all going to mention our favorites, and here are mine.

If I were limited to 2 stones to sharpen blue and white steel, I would pick the Shapton Glass 1000 (my favorite synthetic), and the Shapton Glass HC (High Carbon) 4000. That's because I prefer dense abrasive and a creamy feel (wait 'til you see how creamy the HC stones are). For a third stone, I'd definitely get the legendary Shapton Glass 500 that someone mentioned upthread. It's just dead useful.
 
Yeah everyone is going to recommend their favorites or what they’re familiar with, lol… and mine are King Hyper 1k, Suehiro Rika 5k, Gesshin 400 if you need something that coarse. All soakers. I’ll note that I haven’t tried any Morihei stones and I’ve been eyeing those up for a while.
 
Shapton Glass 320, Naniwa Pro 800 + 3k. Shapton Glass 320, Shapton Pro 2k and Suehiro Ouka (soaker) were another option.
 
I use Chosrea 400, 1k, 3k.

Fairly hard S&G stones with great feedback. They perform a bit finer than their grit (maybe 600, 1500, 4k?)

Main downside is that they are not great for polishing.
 
Perzua said:
Hello,

Please recommend me two - three stones for my blues and whites. Price is not a issue but I dont want naturals.

Jiro
Wat nakiri pro

S&G or soakers it does not matter. I think about 1000 and 4000 - 8000 for microbevel and for burr.

PS. something for flatting

best,
Click to expand...
Suehiro cerax grit 1000 is a great stone, fast cutting and leave a great polish for a 1000 grit. Price is great too, not too expensive.

Grit 3000 I recommend naniwa chosera/ arata (baby chosera)/ naniwa professional stone. They are the same.
If you like softer stone you can try Suehiro Ouka 3000. I try them both and they are good medium stone, chosera/ pro stone cut faster and it is better if you use it in commercial kitchen.


For grit 8000 try Kitayama (Imanishi) or Suehiro 8000 A.K.A Snow White. snow white 8000 is harder and denser, it will cut faster.

Or you can buy a set of Shapton glass stone (1000, 3000, 8000). But me personally won't use ceramic stone for Polishing (grit 6000 and above). Shapton is doing a great job on lower grit because it cut faster but for me the higher grit doesn't give me a good polish, because I use the higher grit on my single bevel knives.
 
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Option A: Shapton 120, Naniwa p800, Naniwa p3000

Option B: Venev 400/800(JIS), Venev 2000/4000, Kitayama 8000
 
Hmm... On those steels, and where you live, I'd probably say Suehiro Cerax 1K & 6K, with a 220 or 320 Shapton Glass Stone for the thinning. Atoma 140 for flattening... JNS blue speckled Aoto Matukusuyama would provider a much better aesthetic finish than the 6K Suehiro Cerax (And is still easily obtainable in Europe.), but needs permasoaking, and the edge isn't as inspiring to me on most steels, unless you're taking the edge to convex-zero with hamaguri sharpening. For traditional micro-bevels, I'd go with a harder stone.

Another thought, would be a Naniwa Pro/Chosera 600 (Run under the sink for a bit, or no more than a 5-minute soak.), with a JNS Red Aoto Matukusuyama (For the finish. It's resinoid, but a permasoaker. Incredibly muddy, but feels great, and makes a wonderful kasumi polish.), followed by a 4K Shapton Glass HR (For micro-bevels. Splash & Go, but leaves a killer edge for most culinary work.). It's a total mix & match, but weirdly would work if you're thinning routinely... I'd actually like the aesthetic finish and edge better from this combo than the above, but it doesn't have the range of the Suehiro combo above... The edge isn't as fine for fish or herbs, and the Naniwa 600 isn't as powerful as the 220-320 Shapton Glass, but otherwise this combo is appealing.

Hope this helps.
 
Damn ... Lots of good choices :)

I decided to order Toyama Gyuto and maybe I will take something from JNS but not sure.

Do you have experience with Naniwa Diamond stones ? 1000 + 6000 ?
 
Lots of different good suggestions have already been made here.

I didn't make a suggestion precisely because I knew that there would be many different suggestions, all of which are good in and of themselves.

A side effect of this is always that it does not make a decision any easier.


Ultimately, stones are always a matter of personal preference and sensibility. In other words, it is always advisable to get to know (buy) several stones and then develop personal preferences. In the end, you can easily sell stones that you don't like optimally via BST without a great loss. However, I would give each stone some time, sometimes it takes some time to understand or appreciate a stone.

A word about diamond stones - they have their advantages, but they are not absolutely necessary for blue and white. Any quality stone on the market will work, some are made just for that.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Yeah everyone is going to recommend their favorites or what they’re familiar with, lol… and mine are King Hyper 1k, Suehiro Rika 5k, Gesshin 400 if you need something that coarse. All soakers. I’ll note that I haven’t tried any Morihei stones and I’ve been eyeing those up for a while.
Click to expand...
I can only speak for the morihei 4000 as that’s the only one I own. LOVE the stone. Super creamy and if you decide to build a slurry omfg omfg. Zero load up what so ever, fast cutter, great feel and amaaaaazing edges. I Really love my morihei 4K. I’d love to give some other morihei stones a go but I’d have to buy them and since I have stones of other grits it would be impractical
 
Just to echo what @KingShapton said- While different stones have somewhat different characteristics (soaker/ S&G, hardness, mud, feedback, contrast), the major variable is the the sharpener. By far.

The upshot is that which stones you choose doesn't matter that much. Sure, a bit at the margins, but any decent quality stone will work.
 
M1k3 said:
Venev 400/800 (alternatively 240/400 + 800/1200)
Click to expand...
Just wanted to add that, diamond stones are unnecessary for simpler carbon steel. Are not good at kasumi finishes at all.

The edges they leave on all the steels I've tried them on (cheap soft stainless, decent stainless, simple carbon steel and Z-wear) are really great though! And very consistent with cutting speed across different steels.
 
Steampunk said:
JNS blue speckled Aoto Matukusuyama would provider a much better aesthetic finish than the 6K Suehiro Cerax (And is still easily obtainable in Europe.), but needs permasoaking
Click to expand...

I have the Aoto Matukusuyama from JNS and it does not need (perma)soaking. Are you thinking about the red aoto Matukusuyama from Maksim? That stone is quite soft and if not permasokaing it need a good soak before use :)
 
Olsen said:
I have the Aoto Matukusuyama from JNS and it does not need (perma)soaking. Are you thinking about the red aoto Matukusuyama from Maksim? That stone is quite soft and if not permasokaing it need a good soak before use :)
Click to expand...
I actually am a fan of perma-soaking both. My example of the speckled blue Aoto Matukusuyama is actually a bit thirsty, and permasoaking helps it develop a nice, creamy mud, that is pretty easy to get a nice, streak-free contrast with. Maybe yours behaves a little differently?
 
Steampunk said:
I actually am a fan of perma-soaking both. My example of the speckled blue Aoto Matukusuyama is actually a bit thirsty, and permasoaking helps it develop a nice, creamy mud, that is pretty easy to get a nice, streak-free contrast with. Maybe yours behaves a little differently?
Click to expand...

I agree that the stone is a bit thirsty so not a true splash'n'go stone. But I not tried to permasoak it (or leave it in water for 10-15 minutes). I will certainly try that :)
 
600 grit synthetic aoto(realsharpknife): better than any 1000 stone and cuts faster than any 600-700 grit stone. Dustin’s sharpening stone of choice and for good reason. Doesn’t dish too fast, good feedback, and no load up. Medium hardness stone.

Speckled blue aoto(JNS):
3000-5000 mixed grit. Produces a cutting edge with much more bite than traditional 3000-5000 stones. Which is a very good thing. No load up, dishes slow, good feedback, and cuts relatively fast. Hard stone.

6000 matukusuyama(JNS):
if you want a 6000 grit stone, this is the best there is. Superior to arashiyama, morihei, and sigma. On par with gesshin 6000 resinoid, but lower maintenance. Cutting speed is all about the same. Doesn’t dish too quickly, great tactile feel, doesn’t load up. Medium hardness stone.
 
Steampunk said:
My example of the speckled blue Aoto Matukusuyama is actually a bit thirsty, and permasoaking helps it develop a nice, creamy mud, that is pretty easy to get a nice, streak-free contrast with. Maybe yours behaves a little differently?
Click to expand...

Mine is thirsty at first but settles down pretty fast, even as a strict S&G. Maybe because I sealed it? Or maybe because I am used to using Choseras in the same way?

It's a pretty hard stone with decent feedback and leaves a pretty good edge for kitchen use.

The contrast is indeed nice once there is a bit of mud.
 
Perzua said:
Hello,

Please recommend me two - three stones for my blues and whites. Price is not a issue but I dont want naturals.

Jiro
Wat nakiri pro

S&G or soakers it does not matter. I think about 1000 and 4000 - 8000 for microbevel and for burr.

PS. something for flatting

best,
Click to expand...

If you want to cover all bases you need 1 coarse stone. most likely a ~200-500
then a medium stone ~1k
then a finisher ~2-10k

my favorites are the shapton glass and pro. and i have almost all of them.
coarse: glass or pro 220, or glass 500DT (but this will be slower when grinding out chips)
med: pro/glass 1k or pro/glass 2k
fine: 2k pro/glass, 3-4k glass, 6k glass, 8k pro.

you dont need all.
a good kit would be glass 500DT, glass 3k, glass 6k. (or 500/2k/4k) (or just 500 and 3k or 4k)
or pro 220, pro 1k (or pro 2k) pro 8k. the 8k is a bit overkill quite often. 6k glass would be more useful here.

my favorites out of all the shaptons are the 220/1k/2k/12k pro and 500/2/3/4k glass.

my most used combo is the 1 and 2k pro. it sounds weird but you get one coarse and one fine. done. then if you need coarser or finer down the line you just add that. second most used combo would be glass 500 and 3k.

flattening: atoma 140.

also dont forget to get a stone holder!

https://www.feinewerkzeuge.de/https://www.dictum.com/en/
 
inferno said:
If you want to cover all bases you need 1 coarse stone. most likely a ~200-500
then a medium stone ~1k
then a finisher ~2-10k

my favorites are the shapton glass and pro. and i have almost all of them.
coarse: glass or pro 220, or glass 500DT (but this will be slower when grinding out chips)
med: pro/glass 1k or pro/glass 2k
fine: 2k pro/glass, 3-4k glass, 6k glass, 8k pro.

you dont need all.
a good kit would be glass 500DT, glass 3k, glass 6k. (or 500/2k/4k) (or just 500 and 3k or 4k)
or pro 220, pro 1k (or pro 2k) pro 8k. the 8k is a bit overkill quite often. 6k glass would be more useful here.

my favorites out of all the shaptons are the 220/1k/2k/12k pro and 500/2/3/4k glass.

my most used combo is the 1 and 2k pro. it sounds weird but you get one coarse and one fine. done. then if you need coarser or finer down the line you just add that. second most used combo would be glass 500 and 3k.

flattening: atoma 140.

also dont forget to get a stone holder!

https://www.feinewerkzeuge.de/https://www.dictum.com/en/
Click to expand...
Really good set, Shaptons are such a great tool for sharpening, love them (among others)
 
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