Fuguhiki (Fugubiki) Recommendation Required

[UnChef86]

Hello to all community here on KKF!

I’ve been attending this forum for awhile now, learned a lot. Thanks for that!

As I am slicing a lot of super thin (read transparent) salmon, hamachi etc.. every day for dinner service, I’d like to upgrade myself with the correct tool for the task.
The knife I’m using is Kono HD2 Suji 300mm.
I’d like to switch to Fuguhiki. My problem with Kono is getting a lot of drag. I expect performance improvement with this change. Are my expectations correct?


The only J-knife I own apart from Kono is Toyama Deba 180mm and I simply love the feeling single bevels give.

My budget is cca 1000$.

I am not chasing fancy handles. I am solely interested in performance. The knife wouldn’t ever touch a bone.


I can sharpen knives currently at level 4/10.

What are your recommendations? I’d respect any help.
Where would you look for it, they are quite rare as it seems..

What are your recommendations? I’d respect any help.


Thanks!
Regards,
Radan

 

[adam92]

Your expectations are correct, single bevel will be much more better to do the task, especially less drag. I recommend Fuguhiki from Furinkazan, Home brand of JCK. I have few single bevel knives from Koki, Furin Kazan F&F is superb for the price.

Much more better than my Mizuno single bevel.

You won’t regret it.

https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...ue-steel-no-2-fuguhiki?variant=39845379178593

 

[UnChef86]

Thank you Adam.

I am familiar with that brand but a little bit sceptic about it bcs those knives are available 365d/y .. What about some smaller series? Would I get anything measurable by investing in something like Suisin Hayate, or those knives are more collection items that functional kitchen tools?

 

[adam92]

Thank you Adam.

I am familiar with that brand but a little bit sceptic about it bcs those knives are available 365d/y .. What about some smaller series? Would I get anything measurable by investing in something like Suisin Hayate, or those knives are more collection items that functional kitchen tools?

Right handed knives are easier to find compare to lefty, Koki always have stock on his website to make sure buyer don’t have to wait. As I know Suisin & Sakai Takayuki used to be same brand, & I don’t like Sakai Takayuki F&F, Unless Honyaki level would be totally different.

If you’re looking for functional tool, I would recommend Furin Kazan, As I’m usingthey single bevel knives for around 6 Year. I sharpen everyday after work, Furin Kazan knife is very easy to sharpen, especially Blue steel.

 

[Ochazuke]

Thank you Adam.

I am familiar with that brand but a little bit sceptic about it bcs those knives are available 365d/y .. What about some smaller series? Would I get anything measurable by investing in something like Suisin Hayate, or those knives are more collection items that functional kitchen tools?

Not super sure why available = skepticism?

I use a lot of single bevels - cheap ones and expensive. As long as you go with a reputable vendor who does quality control, then it doesn't really matter what brand you go with. What matters more is your sharpening ability. Having the nicest fuguhiki in the world won't make a difference if you can't keep a uniform edge on the thing.

In general, due to their thinness, if you make a mistake sharpening them it's harder to fix. Since this is your second single bevel, I would personally recommend getting a standard yanagiba. I promise you'll have a much better experience learning to sharpen it. When it comes to paper thin slices your skill with the knife and toishi are going to make a bigger impact than whether you have a yanagiba vs a fuguhiki. I'm making this recommendation because it's much easier to learn good technique (on both stones and with cutting) on a yanagiba than a fuguhiki.

Learning to use both the weight of the blade as well as to use the whole length of the blade to cut are both really important and easier to get the feel of with a yanagiba just because the fuguhiki is so much lighter in comparison. You can always get a fuguhiki later, but it's harder to change bad habits after you develop them.

 

[Squirrelbutter]

I bought a Furinkazan 210 petty/suji purely as a work tool and was also unsure of what I was going to get but they really are a great bang for your buck. I would definitely purchase again

 

[adam92]

I bought a Furinkazan 210 petty/suji purely as a work tool and was also unsure of what I was going to get but they really are a great bang for your buck. I would definitely purchase again

I think Furinkazan 210 petty is same as Ashi ginga 210 petty.

 

[UnChef86]

Not super sure why available = skepticism?

I use a lot of single bevels - cheap ones and expensive. As long as you go with a reputable vendor who does quality control, then it doesn't really matter what brand you go with. What matters more is your sharpening ability. Having the nicest fuguhiki in the world won't make a difference if you can't keep a uniform edge on the thing.

In general, due to their thinness, if you make a mistake sharpening them it's harder to fix. Since this is your second single bevel, I would personally recommend getting a standard yanagiba. I promise you'll have a much better experience learning to sharpen it. When it comes to paper thin slices your skill with the knife and toishi are going to make a bigger impact than whether you have a yanagiba vs a fuguhiki. I'm making this recommendation because it's much easier to learn good technique (on both stones and with cutting) on a yanagiba than a fuguhiki.

Learning to use both the weight of the blade as well as to use the whole length of the blade to cut are both really important and easier to get the feel of with a yanagiba just because the fuguhiki is so much lighter in comparison. You can always get a fuguhiki later, but it's harder to change bad habits after you develop them.

Dear Ochazuke,

Thank you for such a great advice. I can tell you are really counseling me honestly and from personal experience. I have decided to listen and therefore I’ll postpone purchase of Fuguhiki and go for Yanagi first. Since I only have that deba made by Toyama, I have limited experience with other makers and materials. What would you go for at this moment if you were me? Another Toyama? Gesshin Hide? Furi Kazan?

Regarding the whetstones, I am using Naniwa’s chosera line mostly. At home I have full lineup from 400-5000. At work I am doing regular maintenance with big green one 2000 grit, from Naniwa also.. Should I be thinking about geting J-nats?

Regarding the technique, ofc I am still beginner. I understand the concept about properly removing material to keep the correct geometry of the knife unchanged.

I went for Toyama as m first single bevel bcs I wanted to experience proper knife right at the start so i could get the right picture of how it is using single bevel supposed to feel like. I thought if I buy a budget knife, I may not like it due to the fact it hasn’t been made properly and not bcs it is single bevel. Anyway, I fell in love with it from the first moment and learning to break fish with it was a very nice experience since I had to adapt to the knife and re-learn a process (compared to classic western filleting knife). And I couldnt be happier with where I am now bcs my productivity and quality of processed fish went up, considerably.

I want to keep exploring with single bevels. I just want to get the right knife that’s gonna do it’s job as intended.

Regards,
Radan

 

[UnChef86]

Right handed knives are easier to find compare to lefty, Koki always have stock on his website to make sure buyer don’t have to wait. As I know Suisin & Sakai Takayuki used to be same brand, & I don’t like Sakai Takayuki F&F, Unless Honyaki level would be totally different.

If you’re looking for functional tool, I would recommend Furin Kazan, As I’m usingthey single bevel knives for around 6 Year. I sharpen everyday after work, Furin Kazan knife is very easy to sharpen, especially Blue steel.

Dear Adam,

Thank you for sharing your experience with me. I truly value your willingness to help me choose the right thing. I trust you about your experience with Furi Kazan brand and I’ll will seriously consider it before pulling the trriger.

I am not quite sure about what kind of difference Honyaki process would make to a “tool knife”? If I understand the blade gets stiffer, harder and a bit more chipping-prone? My understanding is that Honyaki mostly carries “sentimental” value and appeals mostly to the collectors.. Am I wrong?

Edit: I am looking for right handed knife.

Regards,
Radan

 

[Jason183]

Is there deep scratches on your HD2 from sharpening? Scratches can caused the drag too with it’s convex grind. If there’s scratches try polishing up the blade surface with sand paper and finish up rubbing it with high grit stone slurry(8k Kitiyama for example), it will cut smoothly again.

 

[Qapla']

Would a takohiki also be a valid choice here?

 

[adam92]

Hi Radan,

You maybe will find the answer in this thread.
Honyaki? I don't get it ...

For my own experience, Honyaki edge retention are much more better than Awase /San Mai knives, also honyaki can take keener edge. Honyaki sharpen feeling is totally different as well, When honyaki contact the cutting board, is feel much harder.

Honyaki are not easily to bent, My San Mai knives bent over time, especially during winter, washing knives with warm water. But they're also easier to fix.

I would not suggest you get the Honyaki at this stage, Unless you're confident with your sharpening skill. I think you better stick with Awase yanagiba for now.

 

[adam92]

Would a takohiki also be a valid choice here?

I would not consider Takohiki to make thin slices, as the takohiki edge is fully straight,
I think the curve of yanagiba make it easier to do usuzukuri. Yanagiba or Fuguhiki( thinner version of Yanagiba ) is better choice.

 

[service.94107]

Nice old post!

For the stone, single bevel slicers usually benefit from a 8k grit polishing. Kitayama 8k or Shapton Glass 10k are my personal loves. The good of Shapton Glass is that I wont worry about evening the stone, at the cost of no stone slurry to shine the surface of blade, compared to kitayama.

A first tango could be pretty cheap compared to your full budget. My first was a stainless Sakon 270 from MTC.
Now they still have cheap stainless takayuki with plastic handle.

Both are decent starters. The most important advantage is that, if you are in NYC area, and you do wrong in sharpening, the shop can help correcting.

The last is not necessarily a pro: these two are soft-ish stainless, so we have to keep full sharpening (1k-4k-8k) more often, which renders practices more often.