Gap in Knowledge

[Danejah]

I have been personally interested in Japanese knives for quite a few years and have taught myself how to sharpen primarily through videos by JKI and reading on this forum. Not an expert sharpener and this is purely a hobby(organic vegetable grower for a living), but I’d say I am pretty proficient at sharpening for what it’s worth.I also believe I have a pretty good grasp of knife geometry. I’ve got a gesshin 400,2k and arashiyama 6k. I purchased a Toyama 240 Stainless Clad from JNS because of the obvious reasons and the lore around it. Unfortunately I feel like I don't have the knowledge base to care for a knife of this caliber. I see people talking about factory zero grinds, how taking the knife to stones can diminish value and so on. This seems to be a trend with the really high end knives. Most knives in the more affordable category don't seem to come finished in such a manner, sharpening and maintaining seems pretty straight forward comparatively and applying the readily available knowledge out there makes sense. Most of the basic information on the internet regarding sharpening from "reputable" sources (videos from JKI,Bernal Cutlery) seem to be pretty similar in technique and theory. Am I crazy or is this a thing. Are more proficient sharpeners able to maintain the factory grind that the Toyama came with? What do I seem to be missing. It took some courage posting this thread since part of me feels like its a stupid question but you don't learn unless you ask....

 

[Ericfg]

Not a stupid question mate. I think the answer is a matter of personal taste. Either you like and therefore keep the factory edge, or you make your own edge that you think is better.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Not stupid at all!

Very good, practiced and knowledgeable sharpeners can do a lot of things and a lot of things I can't do.

What you do with your knife is completely up to you. I know I'm not very good at pretty finishes, at least not right now and may never get there, but I also know my knives are sharp and perform well. I'd rather have marred up knife with excellent geometry than a pristine that doesn't perform well.

 

[Benuser]

A few remarks on factors edges in general. Please note I don't know anything about the Toyama.
Traditionally, Japanese knives left unsharpened the factory or workshop. The end-user, or, for him and at his costs, the retailer, was supposed to sharpen the blade. Nowadays, and certainly with international trade, this has changed. So, at least there is an edge on it.
A few makers will produce a nice edge with stone sharpening. It requires quite some time by a skilled worker. Very often there is an indifferent edge on it: a few strokes on a grinding wheel, some buffing to deburr, done.
You may see different cases:
1. There is an edge that is not meant to be actually used. All it does is making the sharpening by the end-user much easier. A few strokes is all that's needed to transform an extremely steep edge in one that can support normal use in Western cuisine with a lot of board contact. I've seen edges of 6° per side, so 12° inclusive. No steel will support such an edge if board contact is involved, so better change it to one with an inclusive edge of 25‐30° inclusive. 10° on the right side, 15° on the left one are very common values.
2. Some factory edges seem to be made to avoid returns by barbarian users. Unnecessary microbevels on both sides. Needs quite some work to get rid of. No fun.
3. A good, reasonable edge, perhaps even stone sharpened, that doesn't correspond to what you are used to. Especially when asymmetrical edges are involved the need of compensating for steering is very personal. For some users, it's the first Japanese knife. Others easily switch and can deal with steering after 10 minutes with a new knife.
4. The indifferent one. There had to be an edge, so let there be an edge. Done by the youngest apprentice "who got the job because he is the boss' nephew", as someone put it.
In all categories the edge may be weak because of poor factory buffing leading to very local overheating. You may have heard about chipping factory edges. Often case no. 1 + buffing. Your new knife starts with fatigued steel.
Now, first find out which is the case with a new knife. Measure the angles, look at the bevels, see if there are protruding shoulders. Feel if there's a remaining burr.
I rarely test a new knife before I've put a new edge on it, making sure to completely remove the old one, starting with a coarse stone and beginning by thinning behind the edge to make sure to maintain the edge's geometry.
Only rarely the factory edge is worth a particular veneration. If really every knife gets a full stone sharpening by a competent worker, it is an expensive choice, and only few customers will notice the difference. Those who do are very well able to put their own edge on any knife.

 

[McMan]

When just starting out, pay particular attention to #4 above from @Benuser.
This can turn users off from a knife--thinking it's chippy, fragile, etc.--when really it's just fatigued steel from the grind. Once that's out of the way, a knife that seems chippy can become quite nice.

 

[Delat]

Unless you bought the knife as an investment piece, I wouldn’t get too caught up on it’s resale value. Go ahead and sharpen it with your usual edge and enjoy your knife.

When people talk about geometry they’re referring more to the grind or the way the knife is shaped from spine to edge. When you’re thinning you typically want to retain the geometry. But if after many sharpenings you reach the point where you think the knife needs thinning and you’re not comfortable with doing it, then just send it out to somewhere reputable and have them do it for you.

Personally I plan to avoid thinning forever by just continuously buying new knives, so there’s a plan B for ya.

 

[Danejah]

Wow thank you everybody for such great and insightful responses. Really appreciate it!