Garasuki vs Honesuki - what's better and why?

[deskjockey]

I have used a Honesuki in the past and I really liked it. I want something a little longer so, that got me to the Garasuki at 180mm. When looking at the specs from a manufacturer, the 180mm Honesuki is 200g versus the Garasuki at 300g. The pictures really don't show me what is different.

Is the Garasuki simply thicker than the Honesuki? Is the grind different or is the heel height really different?

When used in the kitchen to break down boned meats, birds, etc., which performs better in general or better with specific kitchen tasks?

Any specific reasons to get a high carbon, semi-stainless or, full stainless knife? The vast majority of them seem to be high carbon steel which probably isn't too much of an issue since it will generally be used with fatty meats but, stainless certainly has its place in most home kitchens for good reason. Pretty good "utility" Honesuki can be found pretty easily under $100 in carbon steel so, the upcharge for stainless probably isn't worth it unless there is some benefit I'm overlooking. Now, a good D2 version might hit the sweet spot if they aren't too expensive.

TIA,
Sid

 

[Better call Leo]

Garasuki is the larger version of Honesuki. Garasuki is large bone like beef or pork. Honesuki is for chicken.

 

[Qapla']

Garasuki is large bone like beef or pork.

Nope. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a hankotsu.

 

[Better call Leo]

Nope. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a hankotsu.

I use Honesuki a lot.

 

[deskjockey]

Nope. I'm pretty sure you're thinking of a hankotsu.

Hankotsu are interesting but, are not what I'm interested in right now. They look like a western boning knife to me which I'm not a fan of right now.

 

[zizirex]

Garasuki is a bit specialized for poultry processing that needs more than simple Honesuki. For home use is overkill but if you break a lot of Turkey, Duck and Goose it is definitely much handier. The reason why they use SK steel is that it is better for butchery since it's less reactive. (Corrosion and Rust wise not acid from food-wise that affect the flavour.)
If you can get the Bessaku Garasuki, that is a better option since it's a semi-stainless one and pretty good grind and edge retention.

 

[Benuser]

SK less reactive? Not necessarily. It's rather unexpensive and plenty available, from different sources, that must be the reason. The ones I've tried didn't have the finest grain. Some extra bite is not bad with this usage.
By the way, speaking about sizes: Misono has a 165mm Honesuki in their Swedish Carbon series, in fact only 15mm longer than the standard 145mm standard one. The extra length won't mean much for poultry but makes it a bit more versatile for other tasks.

 

[deskjockey]

SK less reactive? Not necessarily. It's rather unexpensive and plenty available, from different sources, that must be the reason. The ones I've tried didn't have the finest grain. Some extra bite is not bad with this usage. ...

That's one of the reasons I was looking for the D2 version of the Honesuki initially. Whether Japanese D2 is as "toothy" as American D2 is an open question for me to explore at some point in the future.

 

[KO88]

Hankotsu are interesting but, are not what I'm interested in right now. They look like a western boning knife to me which I'm not a fan of right now.

Not true. It's really different. Hankotsu (at least my Toyama) is a single bevel and more robust knife. Also very nimble to go around bones etc. it's more multipurpose... I think that hankotsus are one of the most underrated meat knives...

Did you consider the Heiji?

 

[mise_en_place]

The extra weight in the garasuki is probably largely due to a thicker spine. I don't find a garasuki to be overkill on chickens. In fact, I sold my "good" 150mm honesuki in order to keep my 180mm garasuki. Now I pretty much only use a garasuki for poultry and I let coworkers mess around with my cheap honesuki.

Most hankotsu I've seen have an upward sweeping tip, rather than a santoku tip like that Toyama. As a butcher, that looks way less useful for more general tasks. No judgement here, just a personal observation.

I also use a 180mm hankotsu at work. I gave my 150mm to @M1k3 who has found uses for it.

In fact, if you told me I could only use one knife in my kit to break steers, pigs, lamb, I'd probably choose the 180mm hankotsu. I definitely think knives with some flex have a place in butchery, but once you get good with a stiff boning knife like a hankotsu, you don't really "need" the flex anymore.

Honestly, the only reason I don't use the hankotsu for pretty much everything is the fact that they're a little chunky, and the thinner boning knives I own can pop smaller or curvier joints with less chance of damage to the knife.

 

[Nagakin]

Honesuki is more nimble and will do the same thing easier. Garasuki needs more accuracy, but cranks the speed up to 11. Most people recommend a honesuki for home use because you'll never see the volume where it makes a difference.

 

[deskjockey]

Not true. It's really different. Hankotsu (at least my Toyama) is a single bevel and more robust knife. Also very nimble to go around bones etc. it's more multipurpose... I think that hankotsus are one of the most underrated meat knives...

Did you consider the Heiji?

Thanks! Those pictures are really helpful on this little known knife.

Regarding the Heiji, I'm still kicking the tires there. I briefly thought about asking for a Honesuki but, for the amount of use it will see, it probably isn't the best choice for an initial purchase from him.

 

[Jovidah]

Things aren't getting any easier to distinguish because the names are sometimes used differently. Sometimes what we call honesuki and hankotsu are both called honesuki, usually with the triangular shaped one called honesuki kaku, and the hankotsu called honesuki kaku.
The triangular honesukis (what we call honesuki here), do actually exist in a few specimens in a slightly larger size. Benuser already mentioned the slightly longer Misonos, and then there's the Masahiro and Kanehide Bessaku lines; those come in 180 versions as well, and seperate from the Garasuki models which they offer as well. The garasukis are always significantly thicker and heavier than the honesuki, even if they are the same length.

Which is better? Frankly I don't have a good answer on that since I only have a honesuki, but so far I'm struggling to imagine home use environments where I found a honesuki lacking in a way that would leave me wishing for a garasuki. I don't see a problem taking down chickens, ducks, or even turkeys with 'just' a garasuki. Maybe if I was doing ostriches or hippos...

Regarding steel... there isn't necessarily a higher price involved if you want stainless; plenty of cheap AUS-8 honesukis on the market. It's just that, unless you're in some environment that requires it I don't really see the added value... I don't spend a lot of time butchering acid animals, and rust has always been a non-issue for me, so I rather have something that sharpens in a snap. Semi-stainless means you miss out on any cool patinas, but you can be more negligient without having a worry about the knife. Although I have to say I have yet to experience any carbon knife taking anything more than a cool looking patina during home use, even if I was being rather sloppy...

 

[Benuser]

That's one of the reasons I was looking for the D2 version of the Honesuki initially. Whether Japanese D2 is as "toothy" as American D2 is an open question for me to explore at some point in the future.

IIRC Honesukis in SLD (which is equivalent to D2 according to Zknives) are quite common. Quite toothy indeed.

 

[Jovidah]

IIRC Honesukis in SLD (which is equivalent to D2 according to Zknives) are quite common. Quite toothy indeed.

This is just a wild guess, but maybe thats why some of the most popular lines (aimed at pro users) are often in semi stainless? Might simply provide better useful edge longevity over the carbons.

 

[Qapla']

Things aren't getting any easier to distinguish because the names are sometimes used differently. Sometimes what we call honesuki and hankotsu are both called honesuki, usually with the triangular shaped one called honesuki kaku, and the hankotsu called honesuki kaku.

kaku 角 = angle, corner
maru 丸 = round

 

[deskjockey]

kaku 角 = angle, corner
maru 丸 = round

Kaku and Maru are often used with Honesuki in the search results I have gone to.

 

[Qapla']

I don't know if a semistainless garasuki exists; you might have to investigate and contact the makers directly.

For stainless garasuki's, I'm aware of the Tsubaya Swedish Steel (I don't know its beveling type) and the Ichimonji Mitsuhide VG-1 (single-bevel).

For semistainless honesuki's, there's also the Kanehide TK-Fibrox from CKTG available in both 150mm and 180mm sizes:
https://www.**************.com/katkhori15.htmlhttps://www.**************.com/katkhorifi.html
Disclosure: I am not a honesuki-user or garasuki-user.

 

[Jovidah]

To my knowledge the Masahiro Bessaku are semi stainless. They do have a garasuki in the lineup.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/MASAHIRO-Bessaku-Garasuki-Butcher-Japanese-Knife-180mm-25024/233604121915
Hitohira has honesukis in a ton of different flavors. So does hocho-knife. JCK has at least a few. I'm sure with some google-fu you could come up with some other retailers too. You're going to be paying noticably more for garasukis compared to honesukis though.

The Kanehides also show up in several places. There's a lot of overlap between the Kanehide and Masahiro bessaku lines, but I'm not sure if one of these is manufacturing for the other or whether they're just copying eachother. Both of them come in both rosewood & plastic handle versions for most (but not all) models.

 

[btbyrd]

There's no strong reason to prefer a stainless steel over reactive one for these knives, especially if you're a casual home user. Garasuki are overkill unless you process larger birds with some frequency. They're somewhat useful for larger animals mammals (I sometimes use mine to debone pork shoulder) but are mostly big bird knives. Because of their girth, garasukis are even more purpose-limited than honesukis. The latter have some potential utility being used as a petty in other butchery tasks, like removing silverskin. Garasukis are too chunky for that.

Which brings me to another point. Honesukis are kind of all over the place when it comes to grind. Some are thicker, some thinner, some single bevel, some 99/1, some true double bevel. I haven't handled that many, but the ones I have used weren't especially good at normal small-knife duties because they're too thick and stiff. This can work for some tasks, but isn't great for others. Still, they're more flexible than garasukis.

My suggestion would be to look for a longer honesuki, which will be more useful and less expensive than a garasuki. Another possibility is to reconsider why you want a longer blade in a knife like this. I understand having an aversion to something really short like 145s... but in the normal 165-ish range, I don't know what might be lacking. I have a preference for longer knives, but for poultry butchery, I don't know that extra length comes with much advantage -- unless you're dealing with big birds on the regular.

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah I second the 'limited utility outside their intended purpose part'. I don't particularly like mine for silverskin duties either; even though mine isn't particularly thick I rather have something thinner for that (even if thats a cheap fillet knife). The shape doesn't really 'work' that well for it either. It really is more of a boning knife, and even there I can imagine it doesn't do everything you might want to do with a boning knife. But for birds it's great. Personally I'm not sure how much benefit a larger one would really bring in that role though. Apart from the 180's from Masahiro or Kanehide I think the only oversized honesuki I know of is the Misono (in swedish carbon). After that you're looking at garasukis that will all be a lot thicker and heavier.

 

[tgfencer]

I break about 200 chickens every week or two at work (butcher). I use this knife, which is from the same maker as some folks are suggesting. It has a 95/5 (give or take) righty double bevel grind. It works well for running along bone and breaking through chicken joints. It can even take a fair amount of straight edge to bone contact without chipping, as long as you're not twisting it around too crazily. Sharpens up fast and easy and I like the tooth everywhere from 1K-6K. I use it for pork and beef sometimes too, although sometimes a semi-flexible knife is a bit better for those things, this one can handle it perfectly adequately, especially in terms of home use.

https://bernalcutlery.com/products/...knife-elastomer-handle?variant=39725883457688

 

[deskjockey]

While it has been a while since I butchered a feral hog, that is primarily why I am looking at longer Honesuki/Garasuki. For breaking down chicken 'parts' or making Chicken Drumstick "lollipops", a short Honesuki is plenty of knife IMHO. The 165mm version I had was good for whole chickens as well.

 

[btbyrd]

Never butchered a feral hog before, but if I ever do, my Misono dragon garasuki is definitely coming to the party.

 

[M1k3]

The garasuki I got from @mise_en_place is great for boning ribeyes, decent for silverskin and keeping on the line just waiting for that cook to try to use it that always grabs peoples knives without asking.

 

[Qapla']

The extra weight in the garasuki is probably largely due to a thicker spine. I don't find a garasuki to be overkill on chickens. In fact, I sold my "good" 150mm honesuki in order to keep my 180mm garasuki. Now I pretty much only use a garasuki for poultry and I let coworkers mess around with my cheap honesuki.

Which garasuki do you use?

The garasuki I got from @mise_en_place is great for boning ribeyes, decent for silverskin and keeping on the line just waiting for that cook to try to use it that always grabs peoples knives without asking.

Which one is that?

 

[M1k3]

Which garasuki do you use?


Which one is that?

Bessaku 150mm I believe? @mise_en_place

 

[mise_en_place]

I'm pretty sure that's correct @M1k3

@Qapla' I have a Masahiro Bessaku garasuki. It's a tank. The rest of their stuff does seem to be semi-stainless (I have used 2 other knives in that line), but the garasuki I have is super reactive. It has a crazy patina.

While it has been a while since I butchered a feral hog, that is primarily why I am looking at longer Honesuki/Garasuki.

I would actually recommend against using a honesuki or garasuki for that. They are too rigid, thick, and the wrong shape. Not to mention really easy to stab yourself with the heel when doing involved work (like taking apart a pig). A $20 boning knife off of Amazon will do a better job than a honesuki/garasuki for that.

That knife that @tgfencer pointed out will do the job nicely if you have to have a Japanese knife. You could also try out a hankotsu for pig butchery. I use a 180mm one all the time.

 

[deskjockey]

I liked the knuckle clearance and built-in finger guard when using the Honesuki. I've butchered hogs with other knives similar to those two and while they did the job, they weren't the most efficient or best. YMMV.

My opinions are probably influenced or biased by feral hogs which don't have much back strap/loin or bacon so butchering them versus a domestic hog is probably different enough to affect the knife choice to a certain degree.

 

[tgfencer]

I'm pretty sure that's correct @M1k3

@Qapla' I have a Masahiro Bessaku garasuki. It's a tank. The rest of their stuff does seem to be semi-stainless (I have used 2 other knives in that line), but the garasuki I have is super reactive. It has a crazy patina.



I would actually recommend against using a honesuki or garasuki for that. They are too rigid, thick, and the wrong shape. Not to mention really easy to stab yourself with the heel when doing involved work (like taking apart a pig). A $20 boning knife off of Amazon will do a better job than a honesuki/garasuki for that.

That knife that @tgfencer pointed out will do the job nicely if you have to have a Japanese knife. You could also try out a hankotsu for pig butchery. I use a 180mm one all the time.

I also prefer garasuki to honesuki across the board, and my hankotsu gets a lot of love.

Also @mise_en_place hit the head on the nail in regards to the heels on the garasuki/honesuki. If you switch grips or choke up on a blade while butchering, then definitely look elsewhere.

@Qapla' You can use pretty much any knife to cut meat or break chicken (some folks do it with a cleaver or a deba or even use a crappy victorinox chef knife). It really comes down to what you’re comfortable using, what you’re trying to achieve, and what you’re willing to spend vs what you’re willing to put up with.