Gesshin 400 vs Sigma 400 (or another 300-400)

[Alder26]

So the time has come, my gesshin 400 is down to the last few mm and it's time to looks for a replacement. I am considering getting another gesshin 400, but the sigma 400 looks interesting as it seems to be of similar construction. I am curious if the sigma 400 is any harder or softer than the Gesshin? The JKI 320 splash n go looks interesting as well.

I mainly want the stone to be capable of doing some thinning, and being an aggressive cutter on higher carbide steels, and if it could be harder than the gesshin 400 that would be a bonus.

Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks!

 

[inferno]

glass 500DT, pro220?

 

[Alder26]

glass 500DT, pro220?

Glass 500 is a good call however I’d like to find something that has similar feedback to the gesshin 400 if that even exists

 

[ian]

I’m testing out a Sigma 400 that’s on loan to me right now and will be able to report in a day or so. Just went through a Gessh 400, so I’ll let you know how similar it is imo. I’m also testing out a Glass 500, Chosera 400 and Cerax 320 at the moment, somehow. It’s a fight to the death. Maybe @labor of love can tell you his opinion on Gessh 400 vs Sigma 400 though.

 

[Alder26]

I’m testing out a Sigma 400 that’s on loan to me right now and will be able to report in a day or so. Just went through a Gessh 400, so I’ll let you know how similar it is imo. I’m also testing out a Glass 500, Chosera 400 and Cerax 320 at the moment, somehow. It’s a fight to the death. Maybe @labor of love can tell you his opinion on Gessh 400 vs Sigma 400 though.

This is amazing news. Your gauntlet style stone testing is fantastic. Looking forward to it

 

[zizirex]

I’m testing out a Sigma 400 that’s on loan to me right now and will be able to report in a day or so. Just went through a Gessh 400, so I’ll let you know how similar it is imo. I’m also testing out a Glass 500, Chosera 400 and Cerax 320 at the moment, somehow. It’s a fight to the death. Maybe @labor of love can tell you his opinion on Gessh 400 vs Sigma 400 though.

I have all those 3, Glass 500 and Cerax are probably the better feedback and feel, cutting speed Cerax 320 would be the fastest but it also dishes like crazy. Contrast wise Cerax 320 gives the best contrast, Chosera is a bit odd feel, kinda hard stone, not that muddy, cut's fast, but leaves bad finish.

 

[daveb]

My favorite low grit synthetic is the JNS 300. Some feedback - will let you know when it's found the sweet spot. Very little dishing.

 

[ModRQC]

I’m testing out a Sigma 400 that’s on loan to me right now and will be able to report in a day or so. Just went through a Gessh 400, so I’ll let you know how similar it is imo. I’m also testing out a Glass 500, Chosera 400 and Cerax 320 at the moment, somehow. It’s a fight to the death. Maybe @labor of love can tell you his opinion on Gessh 400 vs Sigma 400 though.

Please do report - interesting lineup!

 

[ModRQC]

In my experience the Cerax 320 starts sweating mud the very instant the shadow of a blade that needs thinning crosses it. Still raises a burr fast enough through thick mud, crazy fast when clean. I also like the finish it leaves.

 

[SolidSnake03]

I'm eager to hear back on this too!

Also can attest to the Cerax 320, dishes crazy fast like a King 1000 but it eats metal pretty darn fast. Okay maybe not as bad at dishing as a King 1000 but still faster than most other stuff I use or own but it does work well, you just have to be okay with the mess and flattening

 

[Robert Lavacca]

That cerax 320 melts before you even take it out of the box. Definitely going to pick that sigma 400 up soon. Seems like a good one! Usually can’t go wrong with gesshin.

 

[ian]

Cerax seems really fast on first try to me, although it does dish. Similar to Gessh 400, which is also a dish monster? Made a terrrrrible sound when sharpening a Kiwi, though. My wife made me stop. More later.

 

[M1k3]

In my experience the Cerax 320 starts sweating mud the very instant the shadow of a blade that needs thinning crosses it. Still raises a burr fast enough through thick mud, crazy fast when clean. I also like the finish it leaves.

I'm eager to hear back on this too!

Also can attest to the Cerax 320, dishes crazy fast like a King 1000 but it eats metal pretty darn fast. Okay maybe not as bad at dishing as a King 1000 but still faster than most other stuff I use or own but it does work well, you just have to be okay with the mess and flattening

Quit sharpening like you're The Incredible Hulk enraged.

 

[Robert Lavacca]

Oh man I had the same problem with my cerax. That’s the one good thing about the king 300 lol. It’s the most quiet coarse stone besides refreshing it. I lacquered the sides and bottom of my gesshin 220 and permasoaked it. It’s really not as loud as I thought it would be. I was surprised. Doesn’t dish as much as I thought it would either. Just want the sigma 400 to follow that because the king 300 can be a pain sometimes.

 

[ian]

Yea King 300 is good for the price, but it’s not the fastest stone on the block and the feel isn’t super amazing. But it doesn’t dish very fast (imo) and it’s not loud!

 

[inferno]

i just spraypainted my sigma select 2 240 green SiC. hopefully it will hold water a lot better now.
it dishes quite a lot.

i also have the bester/imanishi blue 400 and i really like it. its medium soft and release quite a bit of mud. seem like the ultimate stone after a shapton 220.

 

[daveb]

Cerax seems really fast on first try to me, although it does dish. Similar to Gessh 400, which is also a dish monster? Made a terrrrrible sound when sharpening a Kiwi, though. My wife made me stop. More later.

That was the sound of sharpening a $3.00 knife on a $100.00 stone.....

 

[SolidSnake03]

Quit sharpening like you're The Incredible Hulk enraged.

Only way to sharpen is going 100% pressure and force all the time. Just like how I live my life.

Okay that was corny as hell but point taken

 

[ModRQC]

Quit sharpening like you're The Incredible Hulk enraged.

I was talking about thinning for the mud. Obviously sharpening from clean is not so muddy. I don’t even use much pressure to thin neither but the rubbing of a whole surface vs. edge clearly had it behaved differently. Tried sharpening after thinning through some mud just for the experimental sake.

 

[ian]

That was the sound of sharpening a $3.00 knife on a $100.00 stone.....

That, my friend, is how I roll.

 

[M1k3]

Only way to sharpen is going 100% pressure and force all the time. Just like how I live my life.

Okay that was corny as hell but point taken

I was talking about thinning for the mud. Obviously sharpening from clean is not so muddy. I don’t even use much pressure to thin neither but the rubbing of a whole surface vs. edge clearly had it behaved differently. Tried sharpening after thinning through some mud just for the experimental sake.

Heavier pressure not only creates more mud and dishing, it also creates deeper scratches.

 

[ModRQC]

Heavier pressure not only creates more mud and dishing, it also creates deeper scratches.

Yes I gathered that much even with ceramics. Didn’t use the cerax very often yet. First « soaker » for me so of course there’s some surprise at first when coming from SPs. But you seem inclined to believe I push like my life depended on it. Well I thought that too at one point. But testing myself on a balance I never imparted more than 2-3 lbs on a stone and seem to average pressure somewhere around 700g « naturally ».

 

[M1k3]

Yes I gathered that much even with ceramics. Didn’t use the cerax very often yet. First « soaker » for me so of course there’s some surprise at first when coming from SPs. But you seem inclined to believe I push like my life depended on it. Well I thought that too at one point. But testing myself on a balance I never imparted more than 2-3 lbs on a stone and seem to average pressure somewhere around 700g « naturally ».

I just recently used the Cerax 320. Yes, it created some mud. But nothing I would consider overly muddy. Unlike the Naniwa SS 220.
I didn't have a runny mess in the sink. It definitely is muddier than the SP's. Muddy stones work best with lighter pressure.

 

[ian]

First thoughts about Cerax 320, Sigma 240, Gessh 400, after sharpening some softer stainless knives. (Jon is about to be super frustrated with me for misinforming everyone about his awesome stone, but I swear I’m trying to give an accurate review! I can’t help it that I don’t make a living sharpening and therefore have limited experience!)

Gessh 400 feels the best (by far), and looks the best. It’s such a sensual pleasure to use. Those spots and splotches, yum!

Cerax feels really coarse and aggressive. It feels similar in softness to the Gesshin. Seems slightly faster and coarser though. It’s a loud stone depending on the knife, but Sigma’s not that much quieter.

Sigma feels harder than the other two, probably dishes less. Doesn’t retain water as well as the other two. Feels faster than the Gessh, perhaps similar to Cerax, but feels worse, and obviously deeper scratches.

More data needed. So far I like Gesshin and Cerax the best. But then again, I haven’t really done a good dish test with thinning, and I haven’t used them on anything but soft stainless. One disadvantage of the Gesshin during thinning and bevel shaping is that it would dish a lot and it would cover up any low spots, making it harder to get an aesthetic polish later.

———

Edit: @Alder26, it turns out I’m a moron and I don’t have a Sigma 400 with me at all, I have the 240. It did seem coarse! (It came unmarked and there was some miscommunication/misunderstandingabout what I was getting.) So I am totally useless to you.

Also, the “review” above is kinda useless as a comparison to Gessh 400, since the other two are really coarser. Maybe I’ll write something about these and SG500 and Chosera400 once I’ve had some time with them tho.

 

[ModRQC]

I just recently used the Cerax 320. Yes, it created some mud. But nothing I would consider overly muddy. Unlike the Naniwa SS 220.
I didn't have a runny mess in the sink. It definitely is muddier than the SP's. Muddy stones work best with lighter pressure.

In your experience or anyone’s are lower grit NPs (400-600) as muddy? I’ve read... hmmm mixed reports.

 

[ModRQC]

In all cases last time I thinned SS clad AS JCK DI. Tonight is iron clad B2 Moritaka. Core steels « close » enough (well not so much but can only experiment with what I have) that I should be able to pick up different behaviors of both claddings. Granted the Mori already has some thinning on SP320 and bevels are set so I’m mostly experimenting the Cerax’s finish on different claddings. But the Mori can take additional thinning too.

 

[M1k3]

First thoughts about Cerax 320, Sigma 240, Gessh 400, after sharpening some softer stainless knives. (Jon is about to be super frustrated with me for misinforming everyone about his awesome stone, but I swear I’m trying to give an accurate review! I can’t help it that I don’t make a living sharpening and therefore have limited experience!)

Gessh 400 feels the best (by far), and looks the best. It’s such a sensual pleasure to use. Those spots and splotches, yum!

Cerax feels really coarse and aggressive. It feels similar in softness to the Gesshin. Seems slightly faster and coarser though. It’s a loud stone depending on the knife, but Sigma’s not that much quieter.

Sigma feels harder than the other two, probably dishes less. Doesn’t retain water as well as the other two. Feels faster than the Gessh, perhaps similar to Cerax, but feels worse, and obviously deeper scratches.

More data needed. So far I like Gesshin and Cerax the best. But then again, I haven’t really done a good dish test with thinning, and I haven’t used them on anything but soft stainless. One disadvantage of the Gesshin during thinning and bevel shaping is that it would dish a lot and it would cover up any low spots, making it harder to get an aesthetic polish later.

———

Edit: @Alder26, it turns out I’m a moron and I don’t have a Sigma 400 with me at all, I have the 240. It did seem coarse! (It came unmarked and there was some miscommunication/misunderstandingabout what I was getting.) So I am totally useless to you.

Also, the “review” above is kinda useless as a comparison to Gessh 400, since the other two are really coarser. Maybe I’ll write something about these and SG500 and Chosera400 once I’ve had some time with them tho.

I'm surprised you didn't like the Sigma more. You seem to focus more on sharpening feel than me though. I liked the Sigma being slow to dish yet didn't stop cutting, unlike the SP 120. @ModRQC would probably like it, if he doesn't mind the needing water.

 

[labor of love]

So the time has come, my gesshin 400 is down to the last few mm and it's time to looks for a replacement. I am considering getting another gesshin 400, but the sigma 400 looks interesting as it seems to be of similar construction. I am curious if the sigma 400 is any harder or softer than the Gesshin? The JKI 320 splash n go looks interesting as well.

I mainly want the stone to be capable of doing some thinning, and being an aggressive cutter on higher carbide steels, and if it could be harder than the gesshin 400 that would be a bonus.

Any suggestions are welcome! Thanks!

I’ve used both gesh and sigma 400 and I really like them both.
They’re both hard cut pretty good, and I think they’re both designed to do about the same thing.
If I were you I’d decide if I wanted a splash and go or a permasoaker as my next purchase, to me that’s the biggest difference.

 

[Ruso]

First thoughts about Cerax 320, Sigma 240, Gessh 400, after sharpening some softer stainless knives. (Jon is about to be super frustrated with me for misinforming everyone about his awesome stone, but I swear I’m trying to give an accurate review! I can’t help it that I don’t make a living sharpening and therefore have limited experience!)

Gessh 400 feels the best (by far), and looks the best. It’s such a sensual pleasure to use. Those spots and splotches, yum!

Cerax feels really coarse and aggressive. It feels similar in softness to the Gesshin. Seems slightly faster and coarser though. It’s a loud stone depending on the knife, but Sigma’s not that much quieter.

Sigma feels harder than the other two, probably dishes less. Doesn’t retain water as well as the other two. Feels faster than the Gessh, perhaps similar to Cerax, but feels worse, and obviously deeper scratches.

More data needed. So far I like Gesshin and Cerax the best. But then again, I haven’t really done a good dish test with thinning, and I haven’t used them on anything but soft stainless. One disadvantage of the Gesshin during thinning and bevel shaping is that it would dish a lot and it would cover up any low spots, making it harder to get an aesthetic polish later.

———

Edit: @Alder26, it turns out I’m a moron and I don’t have a Sigma 400 with me at all, I have the 240. It did seem coarse! (It came unmarked and there was some miscommunication/misunderstandingabout what I was getting.) So I am totally useless to you.

Also, the “review” above is kinda useless as a comparison to Gessh 400, since the other two are really coarser. Maybe I’ll write something about these and SG500 and Chosera400 once I’ve had some time with them tho.

How coarse does Gesshin 400 feel? Is it like Chosera Pro 400 that feels more like 600-700 grit, or is it true to the #?

 

[labor of love]

Gesh 400 feels like an accurate 400 grit rated stone to me. Chosera feels like a 500-600 comparatively.