getting creative with Renaissance wax?

[Martyn]

I have a couple of rarely used collections apart from my daily knives. I used to oil them with mineral oil on a monthly basis but I would appreciate something more convenient.
I have read about some mixed info on Renaissance wax - while most people say it can last a long time, I have also come across couple of reviews about rust after applying Ren wax.
I think one explanation is that wax can be porous when applied thin or unevenly. Therefore, I wonder whether it would be a better idea to oil the knives first and then apply the Ren wax? Does this mean that the oil-wax barrier can both prevent rust and last a long time?

 

[DavidPF]

Is it possible that some people have accidentally been waxing a damp knife, therefore sealing IN water instead of sealing it out? I've heard of rust problems with oil too, and wondered if the same thing happened to them.

I would be inclined to avoid applying wax on oil, because I'd be expecting the oil to degrade the wax. But maybe I'm just being superstitious?

I would do a lot of drying and a lot of waiting, before applying any sealant. Maybe a hair dryer too, etc. (Not to heat the wax, but to help get the knife REALLY dry.)

 

[jacko9]

I have used Renaissance wax for my woodworking for years and for the past few years I've used it on some iron clad knives to slow down patina. No I wouldn't use oil first I don't think it's compatible with wax. When I build furniture if I use an oil finish on wood I let it cure at least 48 hours before I apply any wax. When applying wax use as thin a coat as you can and make sure you buff it out after drying. I always towel dry my knives before coating them and I have never had any rust problems and with the iron clad knives I've managed to slow down the patina a lot even on notorious patina knives like my Kato Workhorse.

 

[Martyn]

Is it possible that some people have accidentally been waxing a damp knife, therefore sealing IN water instead of sealing it out? I've heard of rust problems with oil too, and wondered if the same thing happened to them.

I would be inclined to avoid applying wax on oil, because I'd be expecting the oil to degrade the wax. But maybe I'm just being superstitious?

I would do a lot of drying and a lot of waiting, before applying any sealant. Maybe a hair dryer too, etc. (Not to heat the wax, but to help get the knife REALLY dry.)

I have read that mineral oil and Ren wax are very similar in terms of chemical composition and both are extracted from crude oil - except the carbon chain of the wax is longer than mineral oil therefore it is solid instead of liquid.
I guess maybe I should wipe the oil off before applying the wax then. Cheers.

 

[Martyn]

I have used Renaissance wax for my woodworking for years and for the past few years I've used it on some iron clad knives to slow down patina. No I wouldn't use oil first I don't think it's compatible with wax. When I build furniture if I use an oil finish on wood I let it cure at least 48 hours before I apply any wax. When applying wax use as thin a coat as you can and make sure you buff it out after drying. I always towel dry my knives before coating them and I have never had any rust problems and with the iron clad knives I've managed to slow down the patina a lot even on notorious patina knives like my Kato Workhorse.

Thanks for the info. Do I need to wash the oil off using rubbing alcohol etc before applying the wax? Or maybe I can just wipe off the oil with a dry towel and then do the wax?

 

[DavidPF]

maybe I should wipe the oil off before applying the wax then.

I would be using detergent to try to get most of it, not just wiping. (Applying oil and then wiping is the instructions for oiling a knife, right? )

I don't think you need to go as far as special alcohol treatments, I expect just a normal sudsy wash and a careful rinse is enough.

(And, beating my dead-horse of a hypothesis, if other people didn't rinse well and waxed some detergent or salt or whatever onto their knife...)

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

What makes the mineral oil inconvenient?

 

[DavidPF]

This is a separate reply to the original, not in sequence after anything: In my opinion you should directly use whatever product you are using, and not try mixing or layering it with other ones. For example, if Renaissance Wax worked better with oil added, they would add oil to it in the factory.

 

[Martyn]

This is a separate reply to the original, not in sequence after anything: In my opinion you should directly use whatever product you are using, and not try mixing or layering it with other ones. For example, if Renaissance Wax worked better with oil added, they would add oil to it in the factory.

Haha, this does makes lots of sense

 

[jacko9]

Thanks for the info. Do I need to wash the oil off using rubbing alcohol etc before applying the wax? Or maybe I can just wipe off the oil with a dry towel and then do the wax?

Yes use alcohol to clean off the oil before applying wax. Using just a towel will still leave an oil film so get rid of the oil with alcohol or other solvent.

 

[Martyn]

What makes the mineral oil inconvenient?

well, oil can get wet and messy sometimes...and I believe wax can last much longer than oil.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

well, oil can get wet and messy sometimes...and I believe wax can last much longer than oil.

Oils have been found in tombs thousands of years after being placed there.

 

[DavidPF]

well, oil can get wet and messy sometimes...and I believe wax can last much longer than oil.

I may be way off, but I had the impression that there's not much practical difference between an oil and a wax (as it applies in this case) other than having a different melting point.

 

[Martyn]

Oils have been found in tombs thousands of years after being placed there.

yep - oil does not go bad. Sorry I did not make myself clear - What I meant was as a solid, wax tends to stay on the blade longer than liquid oil, therefore you do not have to wax it as often as you oil it

 

[Martyn]

I may be way off, but I had the impression that there's not much practical difference between an oil and a wax (as it applies in this case) other than having a different melting point.

Yep they are similar in terms of chemical composition except wax has longer carbon chains. Correct me if I am wrong, but I assume wax tends to stay on the blade longer than liquid oil so you do not need to wax it as often as oiling it

 

[Logan09]

Mineral oil can and will last several years on a blade. At least one stored in a saya.

 

[Martyn]

Mineral oil can and will last several years on a blade. At least one stored in a saya.

wow, that is good to know. seems like I no longer need to oil them this frequently then.
on a separate note - I have read people and some knife manufacturers advising against storing knives in saya as the saya may attract and trap moisture. what is your take on that? cheers

 

[Logan09]

I used to collect japanese swords, I still have a couple. All I use is mineral oil. I usually re-oil once a year if that(mainly because I will just take them out to look at them)

I have a few chinese manufacturer blades that were soley used for tameshigiri. One in fact had the handle split, I retired it and it's been stored in saya and forgotten down my basement for 9 years with one coat of mineral oil on it. I just went to check on it before I commented. The tang is covered in a layer of rust. The blade is still rust free. Climate fluctuates from 75-90 degrees in summer with high humidity to well below zero in winter.

I know we're talking about kitchen knives here, but just commenting on my experience on using mineral oil. As far as a saya trapping moisture, this sounds like people re-inserting the blade while still wet. I let mine air dry before inserting back into the saya.

 

[Martyn]

I used to collect japanese swords, I still have a couple. All I use is mineral oil. I usually re-oil once a year if that(mainly because I will just take them out to look at them)

I have a few chinese manufacturer blades that were soley used for tameshigiri. One in fact had the handle split, I retired it and it's been stored in saya and forgotten down my basement for 9 years with one coat of mineral oil on it. I just went to check on it before I commented. The tang is covered in a layer of rust. The blade is still rust free. Climate fluctuates from 75-90 degrees in summer with high humidity to well below zero in winter.

I know we're talking about kitchen knives here, but just commenting on my experience on using mineral oil. As far as a saya trapping moisture, this sounds like people re-inserting the blade while still wet. I let mine air dry before inserting back into the saya.

nine years with no rust - that is really something. I believe sword sayas are tighter than kitchen knife sayas, but still now I just feel silly oiling them on a monthly basis...

 

[Logan09]

I was a little surprised myself, but it has not left my basement since I moved into my new house 9+ years ago. And yes, sword Saya are very tight, as the habaki(collar if you will) is what locks it into the sheath. Only the spine of the blade touches the inside of the saya.

I know many collectors mostly use sewing oil, camellia oil, gun oil, choji oil, and mineral oil as well. They all claim one is better than the other of course. I have heard of not using renaissance wax on freshly polished blades. I haven't looked into it more, but there seems a reason why not too? But again, these are blades that the polish alone cost over $3k on. Not to mention the price of the blade itself.

But whatever you do, I'm sure you'll be fine. Again, my argument was that mineral oil seems to work perfectly fine. And a bottle will last a long time. I'd probably still check on the blades every few months though. Not 9 years..

 

[DavidPF]

Also (see the detail regarding the tang of @Logan09 's sword), I don't know where the oil is supposed to go (vs not go) on a knife in storage (vs a sword), but making sure the first time to treat all of the areas that can take the treatment will probably pay off more than a rushed re-application.

Intentional removal of oil when you want to use the knife again might be simpler than having to remove wax instead.