Ivan Hersh
Well-Known Member
Anyone using this Kiatayama 8000 stone, and if so what do you think of it.
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031KGP6Y/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0031KGP6Y/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
Good starter stone?
- Thread starter hill
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
Grunt173
Senior Member
I would make a suggestion but I have to many first stones.
I have a Kitayama, but it's from Bester and is a gold colored semi-synthetic stone. I've become leary of those inexpensive usually Chinese no-name stones. The last one I tried was listed as 8000 grit and scratched like a 1000 grit stone and was VERY soft to boot.
The only use for a Kitayama at 8k grit would be final polish, for a "first stone" you probably need a 1k grit stone for actual sharpening, and then a 3k or 6k (or both) for polishing the edge. Stick with one of the well known vendors of those stones -- Bester (my favorite), Shapton, Naniwa, etc. as they all make very high quality stones of known composition.
The only use for a Kitayama at 8k grit would be final polish, for a "first stone" you probably need a 1k grit stone for actual sharpening, and then a 3k or 6k (or both) for polishing the edge. Stick with one of the well known vendors of those stones -- Bester (my favorite), Shapton, Naniwa, etc. as they all make very high quality stones of known composition.
jacko9
Senior Member
charlesquik
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2015
- Messages
- 134
- Reaction score
- 12
Nothing wrong with a cheap king 1000/6000 combo. the holder is bad though
podzap
Senior Member
Naniwa Chosera line is no longer manufactured. Professional is nearly identical from what I have gathered, albeit thinner.
Are you sure that this is true? My understanding is that Chosera is still sold in JDM (as well as at KnS).
Last edited:
podzap
Senior Member
Yes, I am sure. https://www.naniwa-abrasive.com/product/sharpening_stone/index1.html
It seems they still sell them with that brand name for the Japanese Market Only.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
As far as I know, the Chosera is the Japanese version of the professional stone, and the Chosera is still for sale in Japan. The Pro version is for the export market. It's the same as the Chosera, but thinner, more expensive at most places I've looked, and it doesn't come mounted to a base.
Naniwa must be doing something right. No base and less stone for more money…
Naniwa must be doing something right. No base and less stone for more money…
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Hmmm… I might be wrong there. The Choseras for sale might be remaining old stock?
Still, the point stands: the Professional is the same thing, except I pay more and get less.
On the page that you linked, I cannot see where it says that Chosera is no longer manufactured.
Grunt173
Senior Member
You can still get the base versions of the Chos on ebay here in the States. I have the 400,800 and 3k new in the box that I bought about a year ago.I'll probably use them if and when my Pros fall apart from their spider web cracks.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
But you can still get them at other places. FWIW, mine came from KnS, albeit a couple of years ago. But I'm pretty sure that KnS still carries them
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Yes, they are available from quite a few places. It's just not clear to me whether it really is a discontinued item, or discontinued only for sale outside Japan.
I heard previously that the Chosera is alive and well in Japan. The link I posted above seems to suggest the same thing. But I can't find a Japanese version of the website that would answer this definitively.
For what it's worth, I had my eye on the Professional 3000 instead of the Chosera because I don't like stones on bases. But, after reading all the complaints about cracks appearing in the Professionals, I bought a Cerax 3000. I'm happy with that one. Works well, and fits smack-bang in between my Cerax 1000 and Rika 5000.
Yeah, I read all of the complaints about Choseras cracking too. Never had that issue. Not sure if it's because I use them strictly as S&G, because I sealed them or because we have a fairly dry climate here (although I must say some the days this summer reminded me a bit of Brisbane summer humidity [emoji848]- strange weather indeed).
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
I think it's the Professionals that have this problem, not the Choseras.
Oh, yes. Brisbane weather in December and January sucks. It doesn't matter which year. If it's dry, it sucks because it's too hot. If it isn't dry, it sucks because it's too humid. Can't win
The other ten months of the year it's awesome, though!
For what it's worth - in a discussion outside KKF about razor sharpening I was told by an experienced guy that the Naniwa Professional do not behave the same way the Chosera does (Chosera was described as the better stone in comparision, but remember that it was all relative to sharpening a razor, not a kitchen knife). The number of people mentioning Chosera stones developing cracks in spite of them being used only as S&G is considerable - especially the 5k one
Oh, yes. Brisbane weather in December and January sucks. It doesn't matter which year. If it's dry, it sucks because it's too hot. If it isn't dry, it sucks because it's too humid. Can't win
The other ten months of the year it's awesome, though!
Yep, pretty jealous of you guys in July [emoji32]
But now I'm whinging about -4C while people are going through a polar vortex, so I'm feeling pretty silly.
Michi
I dislike attempts to rewrite history
Thanks for that info!
That sounds like the Professionals aren't exactly the same as the Choseras then, unless the difference is due only to the base (which seems unlikely to me).
So more money for no base, less stone, and possibly extra cracks. Brilliant!
Elliot
Senior Member
If you're just getting one stone, should probably consider a combo 1k/3k.
I would recommend, at the minimum, considering two stones.
I got by for a while with just a 1k and a 3k.
Depending on where you are in the world, JNS makes what is a very strong 1k stone. At 3k, you can still find the Chosera on a base on Amazon I am pretty sure.
If you're in the U.S., I would probably call Jon at JKI to ask his recommendations. One of the nicest dudes in the business and I am sure something he sells in the 1k range is excellent, as is pretty much whatever he carries.
I would recommend, at the minimum, considering two stones.
I got by for a while with just a 1k and a 3k.
Depending on where you are in the world, JNS makes what is a very strong 1k stone. At 3k, you can still find the Chosera on a base on Amazon I am pretty sure.
If you're in the U.S., I would probably call Jon at JKI to ask his recommendations. One of the nicest dudes in the business and I am sure something he sells in the 1k range is excellent, as is pretty much whatever he carries.
Xenif
Senior Member
I think we might've lost the OP about 40 posts ago .... But here are my thoughts: though almost everyone "moves on" from their king 1k at some point, it was also one of the easiest stones to learn on (imho). Its soft, easy to use, forgiving which are good traits to have for someone who has no experience sharpening anything (that me when I started). Once you get the hang of things, that when you want a more aggressive and faster 1k like the Shapton. FWIW, I still have my king 1/6k, the 1k throws on a good base kasumi.
Ivan Hersh
Well-Known Member
Here is what i use it's a great Non Slip Stone holder and is adjustable for length of stones. They are all about the same, so look for the lowest prices my first cost $22 dollars then i found one for $14 dollars.
Same go's for the King 1000/6000 Combo, they run from $25 to $50 on Amazon so look for the selling Vender selling at the lowest prices.
Attachments
FWIW King stone are not starter stone. Some VERY skilled sharpeners use them. In my experience I enjoy them more with experience than I did when starting.
The dishing is a feature not a fault. Plus, they are not as slow as some people claim, especially not for kitchen knives...
I have Shaptons (Glass and Pro), Choseras, Bester, Super Stones...and 90% I use a King Deluxe 300 and a King Deluxe 1200. The 800 and 1000 is just as great but different grit. They play very nicely with the Suehiro Rika 5000 too.
The dishing is a feature not a fault. Plus, they are not as slow as some people claim, especially not for kitchen knives...
I have Shaptons (Glass and Pro), Choseras, Bester, Super Stones...and 90% I use a King Deluxe 300 and a King Deluxe 1200. The 800 and 1000 is just as great but different grit. They play very nicely with the Suehiro Rika 5000 too.
Ivan Hersh
Well-Known Member
I have had great luck using my King 1000/6000 Combo, i ordered a King 8000 just to try it not sure i needed it but why not.
Agreed. I don't even think dishing is as big of a concern as people make it out to be. I hardly ever flatten any of my Stones. If I was sharpening woodworking tools I can understand the need for a flatter staying Stone. there are other Stones I like more than the king 1000 but there is no huge advantage. Most softer steel knives is a great place to stop sharpening and leaves a good Edge.
Please though you should not mention the king 300 at the same time as the 1000. the 800 1000 and 1200 stones are really in the same category along with the four and six thousand. The 300 is a different Beast entirely and should not be put on the same playing field as be a rest of the stones. It's more akin to the King hyper then it is to the clay based stones. it would be like saying that you don't want to use those crummy chosera Stones because you don't like the traditional line for being too soft
Please though you should not mention the king 300 at the same time as the 1000. the 800 1000 and 1200 stones are really in the same category along with the four and six thousand. The 300 is a different Beast entirely and should not be put on the same playing field as be a rest of the stones. It's more akin to the King hyper then it is to the clay based stones. it would be like saying that you don't want to use those crummy chosera Stones because you don't like the traditional line for being too soft
Last edited:
Ivan Hersh
Well-Known Member
I used this Smith Arkansas Med. Stone for around 40+ years before i started reading the forums, it always worked very well as you will notice it's badly worn Dished but it still gets my knives sharp enough.
But i am getting faster and better results using real quality Whet Stones.
Attachments
Last edited:
