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I think it depends what you are going to be cutting as well. If I am just going to be cutting a bunch of mirepoix, dicing potatoes, etc I don't think that moving up to a finishing stone would even be necessary. At that point it would all be a question of preference. I remember when I was working Garde Manger station during tomato season I would often stop sharpening my gyuto after just a 1k. The rough toothy edge was perfect for the soft super ripe heirlooms. Would I ciseler some shallots or chop chives with that knife? No I would reach for a different knife with a smoother more polished edge.

My point is that the grit of your finishing stone and the degree of polish on your finished edge can be subjective.
 
I've got a gyuto that is pretty thick just behind the edge. It needs thinning. I do sharpening on the Wicked Edge myself, but this device is less suited for thinning at pretty low angles. I cannot do had sharpening.

No my question what type of sharpening is most suited for thinning. I know a guy who's pretty good with his belt sander and also a guy that uses paper wheels.

What is most suited to my case? The gyuoto has a kuruchi that I'd like (at least in part) to remain preserved.
 
I would fear the risk of overheating with any powered equipment. Coarse sandpaper, e.g. Robert Bosch "Metall" with linen backing, starting at P120, would be my choice. Edge trailing strokes only.
 
Dave Martell said:
Hi T,
Do you mean that you laid the knife down pretty low and cut a wide (or tall) bevel at a shallow angle?

What's your normal progression?

Dave
Click to expand...

Precisely. Now the bevel is really tall (particularly so on the right side...I'm working on being more consistent). My normal progression is Chosera 1000, Chosera 3000, and I just just got a 5000 Naniwa superstone. I strop with diamond on felt for burr removal between grits, then I'll strop once or twice each side on plain leather at the end. Thanks for your time!

T
 
tbott said:
I have a question:

I am not a seasoned sharpener by any means, but I've certainly improved over the six or so months that I've become much more serious about it. The problem is, when I was starting out I made quite a few mistakes being a bit overzealous. One of which was widening the bevel dramatically on a Konosuke Fujiyama gyuto. How does one take it back down? Do I just need a low-grit stone to just grind it down and make the profile of the knife way shorter and start over? I've kept the wide bevel mostly because I simply didn't know how else to deal with it, and I sharpen it at that angle now, though it doesn't seem to take a particularly keen edge anymore. Help with the fix would be greatly appreciated (it would honestly probably be best to post a picture of how bad it is but frankly I'm embarrassed!)

T
Click to expand...

I think this is an awesome question! I'd love to hear more responses

We're talking about opening up the primary bevel/cutting edge, right?

This is a problem I had for awhile and didn't really realize. I thought that doing so was a sign of me going at a proper, acute angle. What I realized is that it was really a sign of improper pressure - too much (for me), and too far behind the edge. I started seeing that most of the 'high end' knives shown here had very little visible bevel, and got a few knives that had killer OOTB edges that put mine just to shame - again with almost no visible bevel. I could be wrong, but I think opening up the bevel so much weakens the edge and can cause easier rounded edges.

What I've found to help fix previous mistakes is to thin the edges (and right behind it) on a coarse stone, which makes the previous bevel less pronounced, and then set a new one, focusing on not being too heavy handed and putting pressure right on the edge. I've been happier with my edges (and how long they last) since doing this.
 
greasedbullet said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFhMGJYhYpU here is one from Kramer at the 9:50 mark. It is on a strop but it is pretty much the same thing. Also on a chef knife.
Click to expand...


Talim said:
Theory's video, he strops on felt towards the end. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dW_sAqpVmug&list=UUY7LzKnt-Q59iQz01e10rnw&feature=c4-overview
Click to expand...

thanks for both of these. they were equally really helpful while being somewhat different in their approaches, notably their approach while stropping with the blade. looking forward to finding my own preferred method.
 
So I have a 400 and 1000 chosera stones, but I find that I want to get a finer edge, what stone should I get next? I was looking at the suehiro rika 5k, but is there anything better/do I need a stone in between the chosera 1k and the suehiro 5k?
 
Ok cool, sounds like I'll be getting the rika next then. Thanks guys.
 
One thing I have noticed with the rika is that it will never ever dry completely for some reason. Which is not a big deal for me because I keep my stones out on a desk,but if you put it back in th box or try to travel with it be careful it doesn't grow mold (mostly the box in my experience)
 
Should be ok, I probably won't move it often. Thanks for the heads up, I'm assuming the rika isn't a stone you can permasoak?
 
I have my rika permasoaking, and yeah it seems to like it that way.
 
I keep all the boxes,but the stones that I use dont go back in them.If I have a stone not using completely dry might put it in the box.I have gone thru 2 rika's over the years,for the price it is a great polishing stone.Also fan of the Gesshin 4K.
 
JDA_NC said:
I think this is an awesome question! I'd love to hear more responses

We're talking about opening up the primary bevel/cutting edge, right?

This is a problem I had for awhile and didn't really realize. I thought that doing so was a sign of me going at a proper, acute angle. What I realized is that it was really a sign of improper pressure - too much (for me), and too far behind the edge. I started seeing that most of the 'high end' knives shown here had very little visible bevel, and got a few knives that had killer OOTB edges that put mine just to shame - again with almost no visible bevel. I could be wrong, but I think opening up the bevel so much weakens the edge and can cause easier rounded edges.

What I've found to help fix previous mistakes is to thin the edges (and right behind it) on a coarse stone, which makes the previous bevel less pronounced, and then set a new one, focusing on not being too heavy handed and putting pressure right on the edge. I've been happier with my edges (and how long they last) since doing this.
Click to expand...

I'm glad I'm not the only one! It was that comparison with newer knives that have very small bevels that made me realize how off I was. I do think you're right, too, about edge durability. With the wider bevel it will cut well for my first shift, but later on in the week it's toast. My mission this weekend will be to take it down with a 400 grit and see if we can't get it worked out. What kind of angle do you work at to thin? Thanks a lot of the help, I'm excited to try to fix it.

T
 
With that wide bevel you have just thinned the blade a little. Correction is very easy: just put a more reasonable edge on it. With a single stroke on a 1k stone at a higher angle than you've used before you will raise a burr. Unless the steel is very weak you won't have to abrade that nicely polished relief bevel and waste material.
 
I'm curious how much benefit there is to using stones of a many different grits on a single knife? FWIW I'm mostly sharpening yanagibas and gyutos, occasionally the sujihiki.

I myself started with stones from Masamoto Tsukiji. I was talking to the senior guy there and he basically told me, you only really need 2 assuming no major damage has occurred to the knife...
1) a medium grit
2) a fine grit, which is mainly just for finishing purposes (he was very emphatic that I only use it for a few strokes at the very end)
He told me I could take a coarser grit as well to use in case I really badly damaged the knife, but I might be best served just taking it to a shop... and he explicitly said he'd recommend me to just save the money. I believe the approximate grit equivalent of what I got was a 1000 and a 6000.

But over time I've seen there are all sorts of intermediate level and extreme grit stones available out there especially for synthetics. You see guys on youtube etc. doing step by step progressions of even 10 different grit levels. Over the years I've picked up a couple of the Naniwa Chosera in several grits and done sharpening in a progressive fashion, but to be honest I've never felt these stones let me do a lot more than what I was doing before... in fact they sort of have made me feel less confident in the sharpening. Now, I know that different makers and stones have different feels to them and the same grit between brands does not necessarily mean the same thing. But does doing a progression through 10 stones really add value as opposed to just doing sharpening on one stone and finishing on another?
 
For a gyuto with just two stones is enough. Even one medium grit is sufficient at time to time. The jump from 1K to 6K is perfectly normal. Never the less if you want you can add 2-3K in between, or just stop there (at 2K lvl). There is no need at all to go from 1K to 2K to 3K to 4 etc etc...
As for another knives, like Yangi, the common knowledge says that you need further progressions to make the blade less "serrated" that makes clean cuts. So 6000+ grit. This will help to cut sashimi cleanly.
 
There was an old axiom, that more stones lessened the time and effort to prepare an edge for the next grit level. But more stones increased the chance to screw up.

Sharpening styles come and go. A while back most people where taking their edges to 10,000 grit if not higher. Now a minimal approach is more popular.

I picked up my stones, when the 10,000 grit sharpening was in style. It was no problem getting an edge on the 1000 and 3000 stones. But on the 6000 and 10,000 stones, the edge wouldn't cut. The higher grit stones were showing that their were problems with my technique. I use the finishing stones now to test my edges. If the edge gets sharper off those stones, its a good edge.

My finishing stones are relatively soft, improper technique is readily apparent by the gouges.

Jay
 
jaybett said:
There was an old axiom, that more stones lessened the time and effort to prepare an edge for the next grit level. But more stones increased the chance to screw up.

Sharpening styles come and go. A while back most people where taking their edges to 10,000 grit if not higher. Now a minimal approach is more popular.

I picked up my stones, when the 10,000 grit sharpening was in style. It was no problem getting an edge on the 1000 and 3000 stones. But on the 6000 and 10,000 stones, the edge wouldn't cut. The higher grit stones were showing that their were problems with my technique. I use the finishing stones now to test my edges. If the edge gets sharper off those stones, its a good edge.

My finishing stones are relatively soft, improper technique is readily apparent by the gouges.

Jay
Click to expand...


:goodpost:
 
I am not sure there is 1000K (1000000) grit stones. If you mean 1K (1000) then that's the starting point for many.
 
Most people sharpen to a middle range grit like 4-6K, I finish on my 8k and it is not too high of a grit.
 
Bringing up an edge to 4~6k would be enough for any home cook imho. I'm not that good of a sharpener, still learning on cheap stones with a cheap ass knife.
 
Been sharpening on stones for a while and have been learning from various youtube clips and forums.
Found a chip one one of the knives and decided it was time to get a coarse stone to repair the edge.
Now, sharpening with the same technique i always use, controlling the angle with my left thumb, on the coarse stone i notice i am bleeding badly from the thumb.

How do you more experienced sharpeners protect your fingers from the abbrasive course mud, or have you developed HRC 70 skin on your hands? :)

With regards,
/J
 
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