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gyuto profile opinions wanted

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JMJones

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Here is the first gyuto that I made, it was completed a few months ago and I worked with the customer to meet the specs that he wanted. I only made the blade and he was having the handle made elsewhere. I just finished forging another billet and will be attempting another gyuto and am interested in some feedback.

Specs: w2/15n20 my damascus,
Length: 270mm
Width at heel: 50mm
Thickness at spine above heel: 2.4 mm
Thickness at edge: about .007 inches





All input is appreciated!
 

rockbox

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I personally like my edge to angle up, so that when its parallel to the board my handle points up for leverage as I'm cutting with the straight part of the blade. On a slicer, I like the handle and edge parallel like this because I'm drawing the knife towards me.
 

Eamon Burke

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+1 on the slight angle up. The tip should be more down, it looks like it's in an odd place for a knife that long.

That blade looks really long, compared to its own dimensions. Kinda making me :scratchhead: trying to figure out whats off about it.

I think it's pretty good though--one I'd have to use to really know much about how it works. Sometimes a knife can have funny traits and still work well with itself.
 

Salty dog

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Tip should narrow more and I'd bring it down. That blade is going to be nose heavy.
 

JMJones

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I personally like my edge to angle up, so that when its parallel to the board my handle points up for leverage as I'm cutting with the straight part of the blade. On a slicer, I like the handle and edge parallel like this because I'm drawing the knife towards me.
I am not clear what you mean on the edge angling up part, got a pic that demonstrates it?

Thanks

John
 

SpikeC

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I agree with the previous comments, but that dammy looks really great!
 

Eamon Burke

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I am not clear what you mean on the edge angling up part, got a pic that demonstrates it?
A Honesuki is extreme angling up. The spine isn't neccesarily less than 180degrees in relation to the handle, but the edge, starting at the heel, and handle are not parallel.

I think Salty nailed what was bugging me, the spine has too much bulk above the belly. If it's light enough, it won't matter, and if the handle is heavy enough, it won't be nose-heavy, just heavy overall. That's what I was getting at--it might be a problem, but might not.

I find it amusing that the damascus pattern seems to accentuate that area.
 

tk59

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Check out Masamoto profiles. I think my favorite all time is Salty's honyaki.
 

JMJones

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Thanks for the input and I get what you mean abou the edge angle now and agree the tip needs work. I will be hitting the drawing board in the next day or so and will post a sketch for critique.


One more thing on a kind of unrelated note, what is the difinition of blade belly? Sometimes I think I know what it is and other times I read a comment and am not so sure.
 

Salty dog

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Here are some examples of some of the best work in the world.





Each a little different but they all accomplish the task beautifully. The Masamoto (my fav) is on the bottom and in the middle spine pick.
 

kalaeb

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You like the Masamoto better than both Mizuno's?
 

Salty dog

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The Mizuno suminigashi is my most used all arounder, the Mizuno honyakis as beautiful as they are just aren't my style. The Masamoto has the best lines, geometry and balance for pure cutting performance IMO.
 

JMJones

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WOW, that second pic is awesome. The first pic answers some of the questions I have but who knew I would spend ten minutes looking at a pic of three knives stuck into a potato
 

JohnnyChance

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As you can see from salty's first pic, having the tip below the bottom of the bolster is generally a good place to start. The Kramer (top) and Masamoto (bottom) are also good examples on how to bring the spine down to the tip to make the tip thin and nimble. The Devin is the prototype I believe, and newer versions also have a little bit thinner tip, without such a drastic transition from tip to spine. Angling the handle up, like mentioned before, is achieved by not having the edge and spine run parallel to each other. If the edge gradually gets closer to the spine, while still being flat, the handle will angle up. Just put the edge on a cutting board with the heel in contact with the board, and then look at it from the side. How much angle on the handle is up to you, but at the least it should be a smidge higher than parallel with the board.

I never noticed before how similar the Kramer and Masamoto are. Other than the little flair Bob puts on his choils and the sharp right angle of the Masamotos, the Kramer is just a little more bullnosed than the Masamoto.
 

Salty dog

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It wasn't by accident. Still the best knife Kramer has made. IMHO.

On topic, your observations are right on. I'd like to point out the flat spots proximal to the heal. Then the belly transition to the "sweet spots" aka relative flat spots near the tip. They are most pronounced in the Masamoto and Devin. (I acknowledge the shape is a copy of something else but the grind is stellar).

The transition belly has to be subtle. One reason being is that alot of work gets done on that piece of blade. It is also the most efficient part of the blade.
 

tk59

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Another thing, I'm sure the Kramer was/is great but I start to lose that light-saber feeling once the blade gets much taller than 50 mm. I don't think I'd go for something taller than maybe 55 mm and my faves are all sub-52mm heel to spine.
 

JohnnyChance

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The Zwilling Kramer feels pretty lightsaber-y. It being really thin and perfectly balanced certainly help, but if really tall blade heights are a total killer for you, it may not help completely.

At the same time it does make me wish it was 10mm shorter so it could be a Ferrari instead of a Corvette (or whatever super fast/fast car analogy you prefer).
 

tk59

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I'd say it's the other way around. The shorter knives (heel to spine) feel like the small, light sports car-types that can hug any curve (or a light saber). The taller ones feel like the heavier, more beastly, less, agile ferrari-types.
 

JohnnyChance

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Yeah, thats what I was saying. I meant I wished it was 10mm shorter at the heel (not in length) for the nimble and fast ferrari feel.
 
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