Gyuto recommendations

[Brad Bellomo]

I am a home cook and knife enthusiast in Ohio in the USA and plan to buy a Gyuto. I am right handed and prefer western handles, but do own and use several knives with Japanese handles so this isn't a show stopper. For over 10 years, my main knife has been a 290mm Blazen gyuto. My fine motor skills have deteriorated since my early 20s, so I find a heavier knife is easier for steadiness and precision. Lately, I find myself reaching for my 150mm Honesuki more and more for things I'd use the 290nm gyuto for. I bought the Honesuki to break down chickens, but have since switched to a $30 Victorinox as I prefer a flexible blade for deboning work, so I use the Honesuki more as a petty. I definitely need a general purpose Gyuto style knife between 150mm and 290mm. I am not sure if I want a 240 to use for almost anything, or to replace the Blazen with a 270mm, or a 180mm to replace my Honesuki, or move to using 3 or 4 general purpose knives. I really only need the 290nm length for things like melons and beef primals.

I do not require stainless, but prefer most of the higher Chromium and more modern "super steel/high speed steel" high HRC steels to traditional carbon. When I last knife shopped, ZDP-189 was being reviewed by everyone as the greatest and best steel ever. Now there are actually ZDP-189 knives I can buy at affordable prices, but it seems like it has fallen out of fashion. The Blazen will take a wicked-sharp edge, but doesn't hold it. It does stay sharp enough for general work for a long time. Improving on this would be appreciated, but I really just don't want to go backwards. I prefer simple aesthetics, as damascus patterns are too flashy and also harder (or impossible) to fix scratches and scuffs.

My absolute maximum budget is $2000, but I am hoping to be well under half that price. I'd be happy with a $200 Kohetsu HAP40 if there is no practical reason to go above that price, but don't mind paying more if there is a noticeable difference in sharpness, edge retention or ergonomics. I appreciate the artistry that goes into a knife, but even though I am not particularly rough on my knives, a decade of use has taken its toll, so I don't want to spend big bucks on a beautiful fit and finish that just won't last.

I use a hammer grip and probably pull cut a lot more and rock chop less than most people, although I do use a yanagiba if I am doing lots of high precision pull cutting.

I use an end-grain traditional wood butcher block, and sharpen on a 4000/8000 synthetic water stone. I am open to upgrading my sharpening stones if needed to work with a new knife.

​

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You could commission a knife for a fair bit under half your max budget.

@MSicardCutlery (Matt Sicard), @Illyria (Ryan Geiger), @HSC /// Knives are all forum members and custom makers and I'm sure one of them could help you out.

 

[Brad Bellomo]

I've thought of going custom, and maybe this would work with the right maker. I don't know enough about knives myself to do this right, so I am leaning towards buying a popular mass market design.

 

[Delat]

How about this bad boy?
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/markin-bnib-sanmai-rex121.59532/

 

[tostadas]

It sounds like you prefer a more heavy duty type of knife that is high performance without necessarily being delicate feeling. I really like the Nakagawa ginsan 240 for this. The grind and profile are perfect for all-around duties, and the robust spine keeps the knife sturdy and provides additional mass which should allow it to take a beating if necessary. Ginsan steel sharpening and retention is very similar to simple carbons. No-frills design, meaning you dont pay for aesthetics that you dont care for.

A lot of vendors used to carry this, but many are out of stock.
https://thecooksedge.com/products/nakagawa-satoshi-silver-3-gyuto-240mm

 

[Brad Bellomo]

It sounds like you prefer a more heavy duty type of knife that is high performance without necessarily being delicate feeling. I really like the Nakagawa ginsan 240 for this. The grind and profile are perfect for all-around duties, and the robust spine keeps the knife sturdy and provides additional mass which should allow it to take a beating if necessary. Ginsan steel sharpening and retention is very similar to simple carbons. No-frills design, meaning you dont pay for aesthetics that you dont care for.

I like a thin profile, a heavy blade and want a shorter knife. Of course, I realize this is impossible and you can only choose 2 of the 3. The Kohetsu HAP40 is 232g, vs the 208g of the Nakagawa. My Blazen is 350g. Of course a lot has to do with how the knife is balanced, but good luck figuring that out online.

 

[tostadas]

I like a thin profile, a heavy blade and want a shorter knife. Of course, I realize this is impossible and you can only choose 2 of the 3. The Kohetsu HAP40 is 232g, vs the 208g of the Nakagawa. My Blazen is 350g. Of course a lot has to do with how the knife is balanced, but good luck figuring that out online.

You can get all of the above by increasing the height. Have you considered chinese style cleaver? CCK 1303 is perhaps the most accessible gateway cleaver, and costs less than $100. It's approx 210x90, 260g, forward balanced, and laser thin.

 

[Brad Bellomo]

A Chinese cleaver was on my wish list for a long time, somehow I never picked one up. The more I think about this, the more I think I should save my money and pick up that clever or my Kohetsu HAP40 or both, and see how much use they get.

 

[daddy yo yo]

I have a 270 Blazen on BST which is almost brand new…

https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/...-western-gyutos-in-240-270.56804/#post-916907

 

[kpham12]

I am a home cook and knife enthusiast in Ohio in the USA and plan to buy a Gyuto. I am right handed and prefer western handles, but do own and use several knives with Japanese handles so this isn't a show stopper. For over 10 years, my main knife has been a 290mm Blazen gyuto. My fine motor skills have deteriorated since my early 20s, so I find a heavier knife is easier for steadiness and precision. Lately, I find myself reaching for my 150mm Honesuki more and more for things I'd use the 290nm gyuto for. I bought the Honesuki to break down chickens, but have since switched to a $30 Victorinox as I prefer a flexible blade for deboning work, so I use the Honesuki more as a petty. I definitely need a general purpose Gyuto style knife between 150mm and 290mm. I am not sure if I want a 240 to use for almost anything, or to replace the Blazen with a 270mm, or a 180mm to replace my Honesuki, or move to using 3 or 4 general purpose knives. I really only need the 290nm length for things like melons and beef primals.

I do not require stainless, but prefer most of the higher Chromium and more modern "super steel/high speed steel" high HRC steels to traditional carbon. When I last knife shopped, ZDP-189 was being reviewed by everyone as the greatest and best steel ever. Now there are actually ZDP-189 knives I can buy at affordable prices, but it seems like it has fallen out of fashion. The Blazen will take a wicked-sharp edge, but doesn't hold it. It does stay sharp enough for general work for a long time. Improving on this would be appreciated, but I really just don't want to go backwards. I prefer simple aesthetics, as damascus patterns are too flashy and also harder (or impossible) to fix scratches and scuffs.

My absolute maximum budget is $2000, but I am hoping to be well under half that price. I'd be happy with a $200 Kohetsu HAP40 if there is no practical reason to go above that price, but don't mind paying more if there is a noticeable difference in sharpness, edge retention or ergonomics. I appreciate the artistry that goes into a knife, but even though I am not particularly rough on my knives, a decade of use has taken its toll, so I don't want to spend big bucks on a beautiful fit and finish that just won't last.

I use a hammer grip and probably pull cut a lot more and rock chop less than most people, although I do use a yanagiba if I am doing lots of high precision pull cutting.

I use an end-grain traditional wood butcher block, and sharpen on a 4000/8000 synthetic water stone. I am open to upgrading my sharpening stones if needed to work with a new knife.

​

I’m surprised you say your Blazen doesn’t hold a “wicked-sharp” edge well, I thought they were R2/SG2 which should hold an edge a relatively long time, especially on an end grain board.

If you really want HAP40 and don’t mind forgoing a western handle, I would go with Sukenari instead of Kohetsu. Thinner behind the edge so it cuts better and feels sharper and the heat treat is harder so it should hold an edge longer.

Do you only have a 4000/8000 whetstone? If so I would invest in something coarser like a 1000-ish whetstone or maybe a Shapton Glass 500.

 

[tostadas]

+1 on the medium grit stone

 

[Brad Bellomo]

I’m surprised you say your Blazen doesn’t hold a “wicked-sharp” edge well, I thought they were R2/SG2 which should hold an edge a relatively long time, especially on an end grain board.

If you really want HAP40 and don’t mind forgoing a western handle, I would go with Sukenari instead of Kohetsu. Thinner behind the edge so it cuts better and feels sharper and the heat treat is harder so it should hold an edge longer.

Do you only have a 4000/8000 whetstone? If so I would invest in something coarser like a 1000-ish whetstone or maybe a Shapton Glass 500.

I have courser stones, but do not use them often enough to even know what I have.

My Blazen sharpening issue could be either user error, or unrealistic user expectation. At one point, I had paper much finer than the 8000 wetstone. I don't know if I ran out or just stopped using it, since the edge was much better than I could do on the 8000 but wouldn't last more than a couple days. I am not complaining, I am relatively happy with the knife, just don't want a step backwards.

BTW - My Blazen was purchased in 2007, and was actually a 300mm knife. I am not sure if I measured wrong or lost 10mm from sharpening. They may have changed steel in 14 years.

I am not certain I want HAP40. At one time Hattori KD, similar price points or custom were the only choices to ZDP-189/Cowry-X, and reading about them here and other places, I dreamed of being able to afford them. Now I can get a ZDP-189 gyuto for $200, but people on this forum seem to prefer HAP40 and Spyderco even switched steels. I'd expect ZDP-189's higher chromium to give better corrosion resistance, easier sharpening but less ability to hold an edge compared to HAP40. But from what I've read, people seem to say the opposite. I do want to try a higher HRC knife, but I am not really sure which steel or even how much it matters.

That Sukenari is more than 50% more expensive and 40 grams lighter - even lighter than my honesuki. HRC 68 just seems crazy - maybe that makes it worth it, but it might have some negatives as well. This is significantly higher than anything available when I last bought a knife.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I have courser stones, but do not use them often enough to even know what I have.

My Blazen sharpening issue could be either user error, or unrealistic user expectation. At one point, I had paper much finer than the 8000 wetstone. I don't know if I ran out or just stopped using it, since the edge was much better than I could do on the 8000 but wouldn't last more than a couple days. I am not complaining, I am relatively happy with the knife, just don't want a step backwards.

BTW - My Blazen was purchased in 2007, and was actually a 300mm knife. I am not sure if I measured wrong or lost 10mm from sharpening. They may have changed steel in 14 years.

I am not certain I want HAP40. At one time Hattori KD, similar price points or custom were the only choices to ZDP-189/Cowry-X, and reading about them here and other places, I dreamed of being able to afford them. Now I can get a ZDP-189 gyuto for $200, but people on this forum seem to prefer HAP40 and Spyderco even switched steels. I'd expect ZDP-189's higher chromium to give better corrosion resistance, easier sharpening but less ability to hold an edge compared to HAP40. But from what I've read, people seem to say the opposite. I do want to try a higher HRC knife, but I am not really sure which steel or even how much it matters.

That Sukenari is more than 50% more expensive and 40 grams lighter - even lighter than my honesuki. HRC 68 just seems crazy - maybe that makes it worth it, but it might have some negatives as well. This is significantly higher than anything available when I last bought a knife.

Spyderco only dropped ZDP-189 out of supply fears. There's talk it may be discontinued.

 

[kpham12]

I have courser stones, but do not use them often enough to even know what I have.

My Blazen sharpening issue could be either user error, or unrealistic user expectation. At one point, I had paper much finer than the 8000 wetstone. I don't know if I ran out or just stopped using it, since the edge was much better than I could do on the 8000 but wouldn't last more than a couple days. I am not complaining, I am relatively happy with the knife, just don't want a step backwards.

BTW - My Blazen was purchased in 2007, and was actually a 300mm knife. I am not sure if I measured wrong or lost 10mm from sharpening. They may have changed steel in 14 years.

I am not certain I want HAP40. At one time Hattori KD, similar price points or custom were the only choices to ZDP-189/Cowry-X, and reading about them here and other places, I dreamed of being able to afford them. Now I can get a ZDP-189 gyuto for $200, but people on this forum seem to prefer HAP40 and Spyderco even switched steels. I'd expect ZDP-189's higher chromium to give better corrosion resistance, easier sharpening but less ability to hold an edge compared to HAP40. But from what I've read, people seem to say the opposite. I do want to try a higher HRC knife, but I am not really sure which steel or even how much it matters.

That Sukenari is more than 50% more expensive and 40 grams lighter - even lighter than my honesuki. HRC 68 just seems crazy - maybe that makes it worth it, but it might have some negatives as well. This is significantly higher than anything available when I last bought a knife.

The main reason I recommend Sukenari is because the grind is better. I’ve sharpened other versions of the Kohetsu and from what I’ve seen, they are a little thicker behind the edge than what is ideal. Also, from what feedback I’ve seen, the Sukenari HAP40 is pretty tough, even at 68 HRC, so as long as you treat it like you should any J-knife, you should be fine.

You said you prefer super steel/high speed steel, CKTG also has the Tsunehisa SRS-13 line with western handles. A completely stainless high speed steel and the 240 mm gyuto is around the same price as the Kohetsu and the grind is a bit thinner.

Side question, have you thinned your Ryusen? If you’ve been sharpening it without thinning since 2007, it’s due for a good thinning. Should improve performance and edge retention a good amount.

 

[Brad Bellomo]

Can I sharpen a 68 HRC knife with normal waterstones? Will it take twice as long? Will it take 1000 times as long? I am intrigued, and almost want the Sukenari to try a knife that is harder than I thought possible.

The Sukenari is a better knife, but priced accordingly. The temptation with the Kohetsu (or that cleaver) is to use it for a year and learn more about what I like and don't like and spend more money on something to replace it. I can do that with the Sukenari too, the price difference isn't so bad if I resell it, but that is more like a knife I'd keep.

I have not thinned a knife before, but agree the Ryusen is long overdue. This was so thin to begin with, and prone to chipping, so I am afraid to try.

 

[kpham12]

Can I sharpen a 68 HRC knife with normal waterstones? Will it take twice as long? Will it take 1000 times as long? I am intrigued, and almost want the Sukenari to try a knife that is harder than I thought possible.

The Sukenari is a better knife, but priced accordingly. The temptation with the Kohetsu (or that cleaver) is to use it for a year and learn more about what I like and don't like and spend more money on something to replace it. I can do that with the Sukenari too, the price difference isn't so bad if I resell it, but that is more like a knife I'd keep.

I have not thinned a knife before, but agree the Ryusen is long overdue. This was so thin to begin with, and prone to chipping, so I am afraid to try.

What brand are your current water stones?

HAP40 is going to take longer than most kitchen knife steels to sharpen, but the geometry of the knife plays a big role, so with a Sukenari that’s thinner behind the edge, there’s less metal to remove so it should sharpen faster than a Kohetsu even though the Sukenari is at 68 HRC compared to the ~65 HRC of the Kohetsu. But probably don’t get the Sukenari if it’s too light for you, even though by Japanese knife standards, it’s a middleweight.

My main recommendation would be to find a reputable knife sharpening/thinning service to send the Ryusen to if you don’t want to thin it yourself. District Cutlery in D.C. is the only one I know off the top of my head, but I’m sure other forum members can chime in with some others. They can get the knife thin enough that it performs basically like new, but not so thin it will chip. Even with shipping costs, it would be a lot cheaper than a new knife.

Then, pick up that medium grit whetstone, around 1000 grit, no matter what knife you end up picking because if you’re only sharpening on a 4000/8000 stone, the knife is going to lose a lot of bite/tooth after a handful of sharpenings and struggle with vegetables like tomatoes and peppers and certain meats, so you’re going to want to re-establish a new edge bevel on a medium grit stone to get that bite back.

 

[Bico Doce]

Im going to go against grain here and throw out 2 suggestions that may be worth considering… and then I’ll see myself out.

With this budget I would put out a WTB ad for one of the following:

Tsourkan workhorse, western handle in A2. These are thick in all the right places but thin where you need them. A 220 might weigh in at ~230+ grams but I find the forward balance makes it feel heavier in a good way. A2 has decent edge retention, semi stainless and very easy to sharpen. Now if your looking for a 250+ that may be harder to find (tbh I got a bit lost on where you’re hoping to land length wise) but Marko prefers to make them in the 220 range and I find it to be my versatile knife.

Jiro Yo handle. I haven’t seen one of these that wasn’t made in shirogami so that’s a strike but I think the profile on his later knives would fit the bill perfectly. The tend to be tall, thick spine and very thin behind the edge. My 220 weighed close to 300 grams but had a more neutral balance so it didn’t feel heavy. This would almost be like a cleaver with a gyuto profile (tall, heavy and thin).

Cash is king right now so I wouldn’t be surprised if people are looking to liquidate those unused gems in their collections.

Anyways, thanks for reading if you made it this far. Good luck with that knife purchase!

 

[blokey]

I’m surprised you say your Blazen doesn’t hold a “wicked-sharp” edge well, I thought they were R2/SG2 which should hold an edge a relatively long time, especially on an end grain board.

If you really want HAP40 and don’t mind forgoing a western handle, I would go with Sukenari instead of Kohetsu. Thinner behind the edge so it cuts better and feels sharper and the heat treat is harder so it should hold an edge longer.

Do you only have a 4000/8000 whetstone? If so I would invest in something coarser like a 1000-ish whetstone or maybe a Shapton Glass 500.

I found that surprising as well, SG2 should sit comfortably above most other forum favorite steels especially carbon ones. If the steel is treated correctly only couple common kitchen knife steel could surpass that. Maybe your best bet is the 270mm HAP40 Sukenari, KnS has them for $390.

 

[Nemo]

My 2c worth on "supersteels" (high alloy mostly powder metallurgy steels): If you can sharpen a knife, I can't see any reason to prioritise absolute Max edge retention unless you do high volume prep in a professional (I.e.: restaurant/ catering) setting.

With supersteels, you gain edge retention, although the "fresh off the stones" sharpness falls away at least as quickly as with simple steels. If you can sharpen, you can regain that fresh off the stones sharpness at any time you like. Granted, if you are in a restaurant, you may not have time to sharpen in the middle of prep but at home, just sharpen the thing when it's not as sharp as you would like.

However, with supersteels, you lose sharpenability, with difficult deburring being the biggest problem. You also sacrifice maximum sharpness. To my mind, the increased edge retention does not come close to making up for the increased hastle sharpening unless:
1) The knife will not be able to be sharpened for long stretches at a time (it is used by someone who cannot sharpen), or,
2) The knife is used in such long prep sessions that the extra edge retention would prevent it from going blunt before the end of the prep session.

I would also echo the advice on likely needing to thin a knife which has been used and sharpened for years without being thinned. Especially if it has lost 10mm of length in that time.

If you are getting a very sharp edge on your Blazen but it deteriorates quickly, could it be that you have incompletely deburred? A foil edge can be super sharp but deteriorates pretty quickly on board contact. You are then left with the (relitavely thick) base of the burr as your new (and not very sharp) apex. SG2 can sometimes be tricky to completely deburr.

 

[Nemo]

Having said all that, if you are set on a high edge retention steel, it's probably hard to go past HAP40 and ZDP189, although SG2/R2 (like your Blazen) and SRS15 are in the same league.

Sukenari and Gihei both have a pretty good reputation for HAP40 and ZDP-189, but I can't recall seeing any Western handles.

I have never been able to get HAP40 quite as sharp as SG2 or SRS15 (although I'm yet to try with diamonds, which some people recommend). Could be the higher mass of tungsten and vanadium carbides, although SRS15 has some tungsten and SG2 some vanadium as well.

Blazen is really a great knife. Great grind, excellent fit and finish and beautiful balance. Other good Western handles include Akifusa SRS15 and Gesshin Kagero SRS15. Takamura Pro will likely get a mention as well.

In heavier blades, I'd mention Shiro Kamo Syousin Suminagashi but... damascus. Wa handle too. Shame, because it's a great middleweight with a taller (therefore heavier) blade.

Edit: I have heard rumours that the earlier Blazens (?Bu Ri Zen?) Had VG10 steel. I don't know if this is true or whether it applies to your 2007 Blazen. Even if so, Ryusen's heat treatment of VG10 is said to be very good.

 

[jedy617]

+1 on a sukenari zdp, specifically from knives and stones with a nice handle. Sharpens up easily on choseras.

 

[Brad Bellomo]

I've prepped over 5000 meals with this Blazen and it is the reason for my preference of high HRC and high speed steels. I don't hate it. The guide said if you currently have a knife you should post what you want to improve in your next purchase. It cuts tomatoes just fine after a month without sharpening. But I've taken this to the point where it splits hairs easily. Its fun to use, but takes time and that insanely sharp edge falls back quickly to about the best I can do with my 8000 stone.

I was curious enough about the knife to find an Epicurean Edge article from Apr 9, 2008:

Our shop had long enjoyed the Blazen line, but when Epicurean Edge owner, Daniel O’Malley, met with Ryusen on one of his trips to Japan, RyuSen agreed to re-develop the line with some substantial improvements – clearly making it a shining star in the Epicurean Edge line-up.
The laminated core steel was changed to SG2 stainless PM steel for its superior edge holding and keenness. The fit of the traditional wooden sheath (saya) was drastically improved by including a magnet to securely hold the knife in place for storage. The English Blazen text was replaced by artistically marking the knife and saya with the Bu-Rei-Zen logo in Kanji.

My knife does not have a magnet in the Saya or any Kanji characters. I bought it 2nd hand ($210 shipped!) from someone who listed it as a high speed powdered steel knife, but that doesn't mean the previous owner knew anything. I can tell you it is prone to chipping, chips are always perfect semi-circles, if that tells you anything.

Easier and faster to sharpen accomplishes the same goal of less knife maintenance for higher performance as does longer edge retention. I'd rather sharpen less often than faster. Easier and faster to sharpen also contradicts my goal of a heavier, or at least mid-weight gyuto. I see the term 'laser' a lot on this forum. That is a new term for me. When I last bought a knife, 'laser' meant mass manufacturing using lasers to cut a cheap blades from sheet metal - the kind that come 3 in the same $5 package at Walmart. I assume 'laser' now means thinness taken to the extreme, if so, that isn't the direction I want to go.

I do have traditional White and Blue steel knives, and remember at least 2 that went with an ex-girlfriend and an ex-wife that I used and sharpened. I prefer the Blazen's steel as it is only a little harder to sharpen, takes a better edge and holds it longer. Some of that might be from the thinner profile.

I am not dead-set against damascus or wa handles. If the same knife has both handles, I'd buy the Western. If the same knife has both finishes, damascus costs more so it is a no brainer. But these are far down the list of priorities that I wouldn't avoid a knife I'd otherwise buy.

I would like to find more information on HAP40 and ZDP189. Do these perform very similar or very different? I know the actual metal composition is very different. Much of the information on this forum and knifesteelnerds is somewhat contradictory.

 

[Brad Bellomo]

A 2007 JCK web page was selling these as:
Ryusen has just introduced "BLAZEN" series of the powdered high speed tool steel blade in Rockwell hardness of HRC 61 to 63
My knife has the words "ECHIZEN UCHIHAMOMO" under "BLAZEN" with a triangle logo. The JCK page looks more like my knife than the pictures in Epicurean Edge, with the same triangle logo and BLAZEN, but I cannot read the text under it.

 

[Justinv]

Zdp -189 is possibly the lowest toughness steel. Hap-40 is a balanced steel with good toughness so a thin acute edge is possible. It should be tougher and less chippy than your blazen. If you go custom there are other balanced steels available like magnacut, k390.

My hap40 knife sharpens well on a shapton glass 4000 stone. A balsa strop loaded with 1u micron diamond makes it sing. I would suggest trying a strop. I can’t recall needing a courser stone than 4000 yet for this one as its kept quite sharp with a monthly touchup.

 

[Justinv]

This reminded me to hit the stones. My hap40 knife has seen daily use for 2 months since the last sharpening and a touchup took about 2 mins on a loaded balsa strop. No need for an actual stone.

 

[LostHighway]

Objectively (reference Larrin) there is little or nothing to recommend ZDP-189 aside from edge retention over a number of other high alloy steels. It is coarse grained, tending toward brittle/not tough, and only semi-stainless. MagnaCut, Z-Wear/CPM CruWear, CPM-M4, S35VN, XHP, Vanadis 4E, and REX45/HAP-40 all look better to my biases although none of these can equal ZDP-189 in edge retention. You might contact @Troopah_Knives who semi-specializes in "super steels" and probably has broader experience than most of us.

 

[Dan-]

On the semi stainlessness of zdp, I can tell you that my wife routinely “forgets” to clean hers after using and it hasn’t rusted yet. I live within half a mile of the ocean too. My white2 rusts within minutes depending on what I’m cutting.

 

[Bico Doce]

Not to beat the zdp-189 sucks horse to death but here are some edge retention and toughness graphs from Larrin

Definitely there are better steel options for edge retention (top is toughness and bottom is edge retention).

I’ll cast a vote for k390. Markin made a gyuto in k390/ss San mai and it was surprisingly tough. No a hint of chipping (and I purposely pushed this thing cutting thru hard vegetables) and the edge retention was the best I’ve experienced. The only caveat is that you need a diamond stone to effectively sharpen this steel.

@Andrei ’s work is impeccable and he could make you a custom that would last you another 15 years. Couldn’t recommend him enough, but the +1 for some of the other makers mentioned, especially HSC///. He makes a great versatile knife that can take abuse without flinching.

 

[daddy yo yo]

Not to beat the zdp-189 sucks horse to death but here are some edge retention and toughness graphs from Larrin

Definitely there are better steel options for edge retention (top is toughness and bottom is edge retention).

I’ll cast a vote for k390. Markin made a gyuto in k390/ss San mai and it was surprisingly tough. No a hint of chipping (and I purposely pushed this thing cutting thru hard vegetables) and the edge retention was the best I’ve experienced. The only caveat is that you need a diamond stone to effectively sharpen this steel.

@Andrei ’s work is impeccable and he could make you a custom that would last you another 15 years. Couldn’t recommend him enough, but the +1 for some of the other makers mentioned, especially HSC///. He makes a great versatile knife that can take abuse without flinching.

View attachment 187785View attachment 187784

So, which diamond stone do you recommend for K390?

 

[Bico Doce]

So, which diamond stone do you recommend for K390?

Im certainly no expert. I have a naniwa diamond 1k and a combo gritomatic . This set up seemed to work well. Hard to say the naniwa is worth the extra money. Maybe page @SolidSnake03 , he always has stones he sells for dirt cheap! Or at least could make a better recommendation than me.