Hamon - Enlighten me please

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knspiracy

knspiracy

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Hi KKF,

I'd like to be enlightened on Hamon a little bit. Whether pointing to a suitable article online, thread I've missed on the forum or even a response below.
I get their purpose on a honyaki, but I'd like to know about about the styles and differences or anything else.
Who does Mt. Fuji? Why? Is it difficult? Is it rare? Is it desirable?
Who does crescent moon? Are there other styles other than wavy hamon and the above mentioned? What are others? Are particular hamons more desirable than others? Is the presence of a hamon indicative of quality? Is a lack of hamon noteworthy? Can you bring out a hamon that isn't visible via any method?
None of these questions need to be answered - anything of interest would be appreciated..

Do your thing, thanks in advance KKF
 
I should be able to answer some of your questions.

As far as I know, only a few blacksmiths that still make Fuji Honyaki: Genkai Masakuni, Yoshikazu Ikeda, Kenji Togashi, and Minamoto Yasuki; others such as Okishiba Masakuni, Tatsuo Ikeda, Kenichi Shiraki are either retired or passed away.

I’ve heard Fuji hamon has a higher failure rate while quenching comparing to regular hamon, therefore the price is generally higher; Fuji hamon however, doesn’t have any performance difference, it’s all about the look. Is it rare? That depends, if you just want a Fuji hamon and doesn’t care who made them, then you can probably find them at many retailers; however if you want something from for example Okishiba or Tatsuo, it gets much harder.

About the moon, here’s a fun fact that I feel many people don’t know: most moons, either crescent or full, are not actually a part of the hamon. They are lasered or etched on to the blade and can be removed while sharpening. As far as I know, Okishiba Masakuni is the only one that had ever done moon on the hamon, and to be honest... it doesn’t look as good as the lasered one; also he passed away 30 years ago so obtaining a Fuji-moon of his is extremely difficult.
 
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I guess because the hamon has large height differences -and with that a larger area with a temperature difference- to create the mountain, instead of just some small waves?
 
>>Is it difficult?
Somewhat, the temperature, the humidity and the breeze don’t have high margin of error. Usually it’s done on a mountains ranges.

>>Is it rare?
Depends what kind. Bellota Black can be quite rare an expensive.

>>Is it desirable?
Personal preference, but yes for me.
 
Ruso said:
>>Is it difficult?
Somewhat, the temperature, the humidity and the breeze don’t have high margin of error. Usually it’s done on a mountains ranges.

>>Is it rare?
Depends what kind. Bellota Black can be quite rare an expensive.

>>Is it desirable?
Personal preference, but yes for me.
Click to expand...
🐷
 
knspiracy said:
Wow thanks for the detailed response.
If true, I wonder why the failure rate could be higher?
Click to expand...

This is just what I’ve heard, so don’t quote me on this one😝: Normal wavy hamon has a more consistent pattern through out the blade, while Fuji hamon has a larger height difference at one spot. While quenching, it creates different stress on the mountain part which makes the blade crack more easily, therefore the margin of error is a lot less.

Btw here’s a comparison of a lasered moon and hamon moon. First one is lasered and second one is hamon moon:
B232575F-B7D8-494D-8F50-24CFF9837BC4.jpeg

75EDF5D4-3258-4C91-91A7-917C6848611B.jpeg
 
knspiracy said:
Wow thanks for the detailed response.
If true, I wonder why the failure rate could be higher?
Click to expand...


A hamon is created by using clay to keep a portion of a blade from hardening during the quench. The clay acts as an insulator during the quench and this keeps the "clayed" area from hardening by slowing the cooling rate of the steel. The reason for failure would most likely be from the hamon stretching down to the cutting edge due to the larger height differences needed to create a mountain scene. This would leave a soft spot, where there should be none.
 
Jesse Killion said:
A hamon is created by using clay to keep a portion of a blade from hardening during the quench. The clay acts as an insulator during the quench and this keeps the "clayed" area from hardening by slowing the cooling rate of the steel. The reason for failure would most likely be from the hamon stretching down to the cutting edge due to the larger height differences needed to create a mountain scene. This would leave a soft spot, where there should be none.
Click to expand...
I am pretty sure the most likely cause of failure is the blade cracking from the water quench.
 
I always forget the Japanese quench their blades in water. I do know I've had issues with hamons from the clay doing "to good of a job" and not over protecting areas that should be hard, but that's all from oil quenches. All that being said, I'm definitely a noob with creating hamon.
 
Why many people like the Mt fuji hamon while I think normal wave hamon looks cool as well? The mt fuji hamon price is nearly double compare to normal hamon..
 
Perform
knspiracy said:
Yeah beauty is in the eye of the beholder. There just less of them = more unicorn-esque
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Do you prefer mt fuji over regular hamon as well?
I heard moon usually etch or laser, can be remove while sharpening, I assume if i want to mirror polish again when patina was build, is it possible the mt fuji hamon will gone?
 
adam92 said:
Perform
Do you prefer mt fuji over regular hamon as well?
I heard moon usually etch or laser, can be remove while sharpening, I assume if i want to mirror polish again when patina was build, is it possible the mt fuji hamon will gone?
Click to expand...
I personally like Mt fuji. Or even Sanbonsugi. Regular hamon is epic too. Its just more common.
The hamon will come back with correct polishing or etching.
Some people dislike the lasered moon so polish it off on stones.
Hamon moon is another story. Unicorn for realzies..
 
adam92 said:
Perform
Do you prefer mt fuji over regular hamon as well?
I heard moon usually etch or laser, can be remove while sharpening, I assume if i want to mirror polish again when patina was build, is it possible the mt fuji hamon will gone?
Click to expand...

Yeah those moons can be remove during sharpening. That being said they are usually lasered quite deeply, so slight polishing such as diamond paste and polishing compound shouldn’t be able to remove that easily; it’s when you bring them on to whetstones that can really erase the moon completely.
 
j22582536 said:
Yeah those moons can be remove during sharpening. That being said they are usually lasered quite deeply, so slight polishing such as diamond paste and polishing compound shouldn’t be able to remove that easily; it’s when you bring them on to whetstones that can really erase the moon completely.
Click to expand...
That's mean I can't use the fingerstone to rub the knife when the Mt fuji hamon is getting darker.... If the moon erase completely, can I use etch method to bring out the moon?
 
adam92 said:
That's mean I can't use the fingerstone to rub the knife when the Mt fuji hamon is getting darker.... If the moon erase completely, can I use etch method to bring out the moon?
Click to expand...

The first few times with fingerstone probably won’t remove the moon, but yeah it will fade away eventually. I’m pretty sure you can find YouTube videos that teaches how to etch pattern on knives. I personally don’t mind whether there’s moon or not though, as long as the hamon’s still looking nice I’m satisfied🤣
 
Walter Sorrells has a good DVD on hamons. Going over a bit of their history, and examples of them throughout the years. Though his specialty is more the Japanese sword.
 
I better stick with regular hamon...they looks equally stunning in my opinion..
Lefty so expensive. 😭😭
 
A quotation from Andrés Segovia the classical guitarist says everything you really need to know about the hamon. Even if the quotation is inaccurate, it's still valid. Someone asked him why he played certain music at such a fast speed, and he answered:
"Because I can."

:)
 
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