Has carbon steel become redundant

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panda said:
i very much dislike 52100 and aeb-l for the same reasons. perhaps they have those qualities that i find offensive because they werent meant for kitchen knives..
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What are your favorite knive steels?

Greets SEbastian.
 
I like very sharp edges that's what turned me into a carbon junkie decades ago. When went to Japan & got carbon Ice Carving chisels loved using could get them sharper than my stainless ice tools. Can still put a great edge on my father's wood chisels. My favorite Spyderco is my Super Blue. These days like my smaller blades in carbon like my Carter. Cool all these stainless clad carbon core options. Sure the softer cladding takes a beating after a while but the blades still cut well.

Carbon & water stones are made for each other. Ease of sharpening is relative trained carbons are a piece of cake, but I have found quality stainless like SKD, AEBL, HSPS, SRS15, Hap40 can take a very fine edge without much effort.

Since I sharpen quite a few questionable stainless blades that have been rounded or damaged, use a belt, diamond plate to thin them some so I can get a burr on the stones with stronger finger pad pressure. Every now & then I get a blade that is a bear to sharpen. My advice is to chuck them & buy a decent quality Japanese blade.
 
panda said:
i very much dislike 52100 and aeb-l for the same reasons. perhaps they have those qualities that i find offensive because they werent meant for kitchen knives..
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See I like aebl. At least my blade from randy. I agree it feels lifeless on the stones but that doesn't bother me that much. I like the fact it's a worryless blade. Not chippy and I can give it to anyone from my grandma(loved it) to my little nephew 8 years old and not have to worry about rust etc. Had to explain no dishwasher though.
 
panda said:
white #2 and iwasaki swedish carbon
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No offence here but especially shirogami 2 has nothing (some woodworking tools maybe) better then 52100. Edge retention seems like a joke compared with 52100, at same angle and you even don`T habe to care about the chipy side of that jSteels......

Greets Sebastian.
 
brainsausage said:
I've always appreciated the feedback of carbon whilst cutting(first), and sharpening(2nd), over any stainless I've yet to work with.

Stainless always feels a bit muted on the board, and gummier on the stones IMO.
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+1
 
get back to me on shirogami2 edge retention after you try a munetoshi. but retention is not the quality i seek in knife steels, it's merely a bonus. this was not always the case. at first i was all about aogami super because it had great retention and still easy as hell to sharpen and was not very reactive. then as i tried more and more stuff, i've come to appreciate the draw of ease of sharpening. not only that, purer (less alloyed) carbons feel different while cutting, i would go so far as to say they actually do feel 'purer' while going through food.

i've never experienced chipping with white steel. i think chip proneness has more to do with being too thin at the edge(or lack of supporting steel behind it) and technique more than the steel itself.
 
If edge retention is a concern then you should stay away from shirogami. I could care less personally. As long as I don't have to touch up an edge every single day I'm Gucci.
 
panda said:
get back to me on shirogami2 edge retention after you try a munetoshi. but retention is not the quality i seek in knife steels, it's merely a bonus. this was not always the case. at first i was all about aogami super because it had great retention and still easy as hell to sharpen and was not very reactive. then as i tried more and more stuff, i've come to appreciate the draw of ease of sharpening. not only that, purer (less alloyed) carbons feel different while cutting, i would go so far as to say they actually do feel 'purer' while going through food.

i've never experienced chipping with white steel. i think chip proneness has more to do with being too thin at the edge(or lack of supporting steel behind it) and technique more than the steel itself.
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I doubt this but will try if it got better edge retention then maybe Kato, thank you for the tip.

Greets Sebastian.
 
I must be the only one who does not see a big difference in sharpening good stainless vs carbon. I much ptefer to sharpen Takamura R2 o Ginga compared to the Shig for example. The two least favorites on stones are Hiromoto AS and Haburn in 52100. While I like Tanaka in b2 very much. So its a mixed bag for me.
 
Ruso said:
I must be the only one who does not see a big difference in sharpening good stainless vs carbon. I much ptefer to sharpen Takamura R2 o Ginga compared to the Shig for example. The two least favorites on stones are Hiromoto AS and Haburn in 52100. While I like Tanaka in b2 very much. So its a mixed bag for me.
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No you are not the only one, i don`T feel no big difference too! I think it depends on the used stones... i use Chosera and naturals only, and i can feel no difference between stainless or carbon. Only some steels like Vg10 or SG2 need a lie bit of efford to reach ultrasharpness..... thats it.

Greets Sebastian.
 
Sharpchef said:
No you are not the only one, i don`T feel no big difference too! I think it depends on the used stones... i use Chosera and naturals only, and i can feel no difference between stainless or carbon. Only some steels like Vg10 or SG2 need a lie bit of efford to reach ultrasharpness..... thats it.

Greets Sebastian.
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Heiji semi stainless is the only thing that's come anywhere close for me.
 
I would really like to see a Americas test kitchen episode with knives we recommend so they can do a full and proper test of super stainless vs carbon. and use their electron microscope and cutting on glass. -- Must have contenders
Japanese comparison - Shig (proprietary) / kato(proprietary) / kono fujiyama Blue / Takeda AS / Tanaka R2 / sukenari ZDP - 2 proprietary 2 Blues 2 stainless
American (custom) comparison - Carter (white) / Devin (AEBL) / ..... help
 
LucasFur said:
I would really like to see a Americas test kitchen episode with knives we recommend so they can do a full and proper test of super stainless vs carbon. and use their electron microscope and cutting on glass. -- Must have contenders
Japanese comparison - Shig (proprietary) / kato(proprietary) / kono fujiyama Blue / Takeda AS / Tanaka R2 / sukenari ZDP - 2 proprietary 2 Blues 2 stainless
American (custom) comparison - Carter (white) / Devin (AEBL) / ..... help
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The problem is : how do they get so many rare knives you mentioned, unless this forum can do a collaboration episode with them.
I'm sure they can get all the equipment needed to to the test(because they're in freaking Boston, so many schools).
 
Im really enjoying this thread. A lot of whats being written here is true. Then again, some of it is a bit foggy or sounds unfounded. And then there is always a somewhat unquantifiable element when "testing steel A up against B" is concerned, for various reasons. It cant be helped - and it's OK. Sometimes I think it's mainly a wabi-sabi thing - those more accepting of the permeability of organic materials will no doubt embrace carbon steels and all they bring with them. Those less accepting of permeability will embrace the cold (almost) unchanging nature of stainless steels.
 
Yeah, it would be hard to precisely quantify the differences of different steels. As some of the craftsmen have stated, HT can make a bigger difference than steel differences, and no matter what they did when testing sharpening, someone would insist their favorite steel also needed to be tested with a specific JNAT, or a different progression, or yet another technique. It's really going to be a matter of figuring out what you prefer, personally, and going forward with that.
 
Most of my knives have ended up being carbon, although the selection process has been more a case of liking a maker's work rather than going for a particular steel. The stainless exceptions are mostly SG2, with an SLD and Cowry X thrown in (the old man ended up with an AEB-L knife with wonderful heat treat--really nice steel when done well.) Good maker, good heat treat, and I'm pretty happy--I've forgotten what particular steels are in most of my knives. Most of the carbons are not terrible reactive if you use just a little bit of common sense. And they're beautiful when they develop a patina.
 
What do you guys think of sharpening 52100 by the better western makers (Devin, mert, haburn) compared to their shirogami and aogami? They usually recommend the 52100 from what I've seen and that's usually their go to steel. But how is it on the stones and in terms of sharpness and retention? And for people working in pro kitchens, why would you prefer a carbon over a stainless? Even if your a fanatic your carbon knives if used as line knives or with mass quantities won't get the dedication they deserve. (Excluding fine work in smaller quantities, like shiffonading or super precise cuts)
 
Kingkor said:
What do you guys think of sharpening 52100 by the better western makers (Devin, mert, haburn) compared to their shirogami and aogami? They usually recommend the 52100 from what I've seen and that's usually their go to steel. But how is it on the stones and in terms of sharpness and retention? And for people working in pro kitchens, why would you prefer a carbon over a stainless? Even if your a fanatic your carbon knives if used as line knives or with mass quantities won't get the dedication they deserve. (Excluding fine work in smaller quantities, like shiffonading or super precise cuts)
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I really like the 52100 that I've used (Marko) but as read here, a lot of people don't seem to enjoy the feeling on the board or stones. I am also a fan of PM steels so it definitely boils down to personal tastes. The things I enjoy most about it are a) edge retention/durability b) stain resistance and c) ease of sharpening (comparatively speaking against other PM/stainless knives).

And about pro kitchens...

I think people are often hesitant and fearful of "ruining" their knives. By that I mean scratching them up, putting different & experimental edges, having rust happen etc. And that can get in the way of really getting to understand your knife and getting the most out of it. Go to any professional kitchen and you will most likely see some knives that have been heavily sharpened, have had their profiles changed drastically... but haven't been thinned a single time. Because of that they cut terribly and are useless. I know I've had my share. Part of that is because a lack of awareness and information, but the other part is because, deep down, we still want our knives "to look nice" for as long as possible. I remember a poster here talking about going to some convention and proudly showing a maker their knife, who in turned chastised them for not maintaining/thinning the knife properly. If you're going to use a knife a lot, you need to scratch it up (aka thin it out). If you're using a carbon knife heavily, you're going to need to be ready to scrub the rust off. It's not that hard. If you use a single-bevel heavily, you will need to learn how to deal with chips. Just how it is.
 
Is there going to be a big difference between steel like 3v and super blue or blue # 2 From what I have read some of the semistainless steels have great edge stability
 
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