Hatsukokoro Yoake impressions?

[dAtron]

For those of you who have one what are your impressions. How does it compare to other workhorses like Toyama etc?

 

[itzjustchris1]

I’ll answer this question once I receive the Yoake kiritsuke that I purchased.

 

[Corradobrit1]

The only thing really holding me back is the reported hardness. Doesn't seem like they are pushing the full potential of B#1. Looking forward to hearing a few real world experiences

 

[itzjustchris1]

The only thing really holding me back is the reported hardness. Doesn't seem like they are pushing the full potential of B#1. Looking forward to hearing a few real world experiences

No need to worry if the Yoake line is forged by Nakagawa but there's so little info about the knife line.

 

[blokey]

No need to worry if the Yoake line is forged by Nakagawa but there's so little info about the knife line.

The distal taper really doesn’t look Nakagawa to me.

 

[tostadas]

I've had a bunch of ppl reach out to me with similar question about this line, so I'll just copy paste some of the stuff here.

I have 2, one in 240 and one in 210. They have similarities in construction, but big differences in performance.

The key feature is the spine. The 240 has over 7mm at handle, 5mm+ at handle, like 2.3 mid, and 0.9 tip. Out of the box, I noticed immediate similarities to my old school mazaki. The grind looks to be done with a big wheel, so it has a high shinogi with slight concave. It feels very similar to the Hatsukokoro Komorebi, if you've tried one. One thing about my 240 is that it came with a super thick edge out of the box. I consider around 0.20mm to be typical, 0.25mm on the thicker side, and 0.30mm needing some thinning. Mine came with 0.45mm behind the edge, and required significant amount of work to establish a proper bevel. It feels like a workhorse in that regard. Steel feels quite hard on the stones, and the finish is a step above sandblast with a sort of brushed blade road.

In contrast to the 240, my 210 grind was extremely thin. Same sort of slight concave up to shinogi, but actually ground down to the edge, so it's very fine behind the edge, with a super beefy spine. The profile however on the 210 had a bit of recurve at the heel which required me to take time to reprofile to correct. I'm making this one my current project knife. I see a lot of potential.

Overall thoughts based on these 2 examples, I think it's safe to say you can expect some degree of variation in the grind. Neither of mine was what I consider good to go out of the box. The spine is really awesome though. For the price I paid which was just over $300, I think still it's an amazing deal. For the steel treatment and forged taper, it's worth the price already.

 

[superworrier]

If anything is going to convince me it's by Mazaki, it's gonna be the inconsistent grind.

 

[tostadas]

If anything is going to convince me it's by Mazaki, it's gonna be the inconsistent grind.

I originally thought maybe mazaki cuz of the taper, but now I really don't think so. I mean there's at least a second step of finishing on these with the lengthwise polish, so in theory that could cover things up, if they were rough ground by mazaki. But the kind of concave on these don't seem at all like what I've seen on any mazaki. Much more similar to what I've seen from various Sakai knives. And the cutting profile is similar to the few Nakagawa knives I've had.

The only thing really holding me back is the reported hardness. Doesn't seem like they are pushing the full potential of B#1. Looking forward to hearing a few real world experiences

With regard to hardness, the core steel on these is really hard. The cladding is very soft but the the core is very resistant to many of my stones almost like tf white1
.

 

[superworrier]

I originally thought maybe mazaki cuz of the taper, but now I really don't think so. I mean there's at least a second step of finishing on these with the lengthwise polish, so in theory that could cover things up, if they were rough ground by mazaki. But the kind of concave on these don't seem at all like what I've seen on any mazaki. Much more similar to what I've seen from various Sakai knives. And the cutting profile is similar to the few Nakagawa knives I've had.

With regard to hardness, the core steel on these is really hard. The cladding is very soft but the the core is very resistant to many of my stones almost like tf white1
.

Yeah, true. Concave is not Mazaki at all.

 

[dAtron]

From what I keep hearing, it is significantly cheaper in the states than in the Uk and to me it's not worth what they are charging, over here. Especially if it needs work out the box to cut well.

 

[Hamesjo]

Just received mine today in 240mm, was happy to see that it differs a bit from Tostadas' sample where this one is very nicely thin behind the edge. Thinner than any Maz I've had out of the box actually, and they have very similar thick spines at the heel with aggressive taper.
Came with an awful edge so excited to feel the core steel's feedback on stones tonight.
Also was pleasantly surprised with the bevel polish, brighter core than I was expecting

 

[Hamesjo]

I want to alter the profile just slightly, as it came with that dead spot at the heel that jams everything up. But overall the profile feels like what a Y. Tanaka would be with extra heel height which is one of the reasons I was intrigued in the first place

 

[dAtron]

So I found a great deal in the sates and mine is on the way too. I will also share my thoughts once I use it.

 

[itzjustchris1]

So I found a great deal in the sates and mine is on the way too. I will also share my thoughts once I use it.

Homebutcher with the black friday code. Can’t complain with the price.

 

[Gregmega]

The finish reminds me of the Morehei Tanaka (Tsubaya??) ku that were floating around a few years ago tbh. With exception of the spine thickness out of the handle, I could be fooled.

 

[JoBone]

The distal taper really doesn’t look Nakagawa to me.

Hatsukokoro will not disclose the name of the blacksmith due to their tricky relationship. I take this as a reason smiths like Nakagawa, which they do disclose, don’t make the cut.

 

[zizirex]

could be Masashi, could be Tosa Blacksmith (Tadayoshi, Zakuri etc). I don't think it's Sakai blacksmith who forges it.

 

[GorillaGrunt]

The question isn’t whether they’re made by Mazaki, but rather which disguise Mazaki is wearing when he makes them.

 

[M1k3]

The question isn’t whether they’re made by Mazaki, but rather which disguise Mazaki is wearing when he makes them.

 

[itzjustchris1]

Just received my Kiritsuke Yoake today and damn! I can’t complain for how much I paid for it. This knife reminds me of my Nakagawa Ginsan Kiritsuke wide bevel. Debating on doing a handle swap on it. The knife is pretty thin behind the edge and it’s sharp.

 

[madmotts]

A migaki version of Yoake (non wide bevel) just landed from homebutcher and it's sweet. Very similar to the damascus komorebi thin version that i have- beast out of the handle and substantial taper. Spine could use a bit of smoothing.

 

[Duukt]

I just received the migaki version and the spine seems to have a kurouchi finish on it. Are these just kurouchi versions of the knife re-ground to the migaki edition?

 

[itzjustchris1]

I just received the migaki version and the spine seems to have a kurouchi finish on it. Are these just kurouchi versions of the knife re-ground to the migaki edition?

I think they are really Migaki because i’ve seen the same knife posted up as Miura knives last week.

 

[kpham12]

A migaki version of Yoake (non wide bevel) just landed from homebutcher and it's sweet. Very similar to the damascus komorebi thin version that i have- beast out of the handle and substantial taper. Spine could use a bit of smoothing.

View attachment 214048
View attachment 214047

Is the grind still concave on this one?

 

[tostadas]

Is the grind still concave on this one?

Depends on the one you get. I got a 210 and 240 migaki to compare with my ku versions. I think they all have some concavity, but the extent varies.

 

[Duukt]

Depends on the one you get. I got a 210 and 240 migaki to compare with my ku versions. I think they all have some concavity, but the extent varies.

My migaki 240 is convex throughout but will check again in daylight.

 

[kpham12]

Depends on the one you get. I got a 210 and 240 migaki to compare with my ku versions. I think they all have some concavity, but the extent varies.

Dang, 4 Yoakes. Is the one you’re thinning still concave or are the bevels flat by now?

 

[tostadas]

My migaki 240 is convex throughout but will check again in daylight.

My 210 migaki is well convexed, the 240 migaki is convex at the edge, with a bit of concavity further up the grind. The 210 ku also is convex at the edge and concave higher. My 240 ku was concave but super fat but there's enough material for me to regrind it to be convex if I decide to go that route..

Dang, 4 Yoakes. Is the one you’re thinning still concave or are the bevels flat by now?

Haha yea I really like this line a lot. Despite all the stuff I say about inconsistency. Similar to how I think tf f&f is terrible but the knives are still great. The yaoke f&f is still better than tf. I haven't taken the knife all the way up the shinogi yet on my 240, mainly focusing behind the edge for now. Still deciding how much effort I want to put in.

Here's a copy of those photos of thinning progress I uploaded on the other thread. I forgot to take a "before" photo.

 

[jedy617]

You guys are lucky, your choil shots are all thinner than my k tip gyuto. Maybe k tip is not the way to go?

 

[jedy617]

Here's a good shot of mine. Not super thick but def not as thin as yours. Probably on the thicker side of medium? Can't complain that much for the price, and it does have a 7mm spine. Near the tip does feel thin tho.