Hatsukokoro
- Thread starter JayS20
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They seem ground nicely enough. Found them a bit expensive for a new pop out of nowhere, but couldn't find much I would fault from specs and pictures. Kepp us posted when you'll get one.
They could be done by Tomoo Matsumura.
He works for Tojiro and leads the Tojiro Atelier team, their premium line.
He trained with Kazuomi Yamamoto of Yoshikane and learned from Tsuneo Yoshida and Kinsaku Kondo. So would definitely fit. Looks, profile, master blacksmith from Sanjo
He works for Tojiro and leads the Tojiro Atelier team, their premium line.
He trained with Kazuomi Yamamoto of Yoshikane and learned from Tsuneo Yoshida and Kinsaku Kondo. So would definitely fit. Looks, profile, master blacksmith from Sanjo
my 2 guesses are Tomoo and Mutsumi Hinoura, the cladding and everything looks like Tojiro Atelier. Somehow the only smith that uses AS from Sanjo is only Hinoura and the machi also only Hinoura.
Hatsukokoro is a new brand from a company based out of Seki. They have been behind the scenes providing knives to shops for years and recently started working with blacksmiths for OEM work. Using buying power (I think), they manage to get knives at lower costs than other dealers.
From what I am seeing after handling them and researching, both their HAP40 and Inazuma (AS) lines are a good bang for the buck.
As a side note, Ittetsu is similar. Those knives are made available from a long term dealer, that started having OEM work done.
Like many companies and knives, the blacksmiths are not disclosed under contractual agreements.
The reasons of non-disclosure are kind of fascinating. For the AS line, I was told the blacksmith normally sells for more, so disclosing his name would make an uncomfortable position as he sells knives to other companies. For a line of Y Tanaka, the reason for non-disclosure of the sharpener is because the sharpener has officially retired.
Sometimes, a company or blacksmith will make the same knife and sell it under different names, changing the kanji.
From what I am seeing after handling them and researching, both their HAP40 and Inazuma (AS) lines are a good bang for the buck.
As a side note, Ittetsu is similar. Those knives are made available from a long term dealer, that started having OEM work done.
Like many companies and knives, the blacksmiths are not disclosed under contractual agreements.
The reasons of non-disclosure are kind of fascinating. For the AS line, I was told the blacksmith normally sells for more, so disclosing his name would make an uncomfortable position as he sells knives to other companies. For a line of Y Tanaka, the reason for non-disclosure of the sharpener is because the sharpener has officially retired.
Sometimes, a company or blacksmith will make the same knife and sell it under different names, changing the kanji.
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I just pulled the trigger on a 240 gyuto (I wish I could’ve bought from Sugi with a custom handle but they were all out of 240mm).
I came across a reddit post from someone who seemed to have solid info that they’re from Tojiro Atelier (TA) and forged by Tomoo Matsumura. That would explain the resemblance to Yoshikane as noted by @JayS20 . TA also makes the same Tsuchime + KU + Damascus + mirror polished bevel under their own brand so I tend to think this info is correct.
According to this info, TA is a separate operation in a new workshop where each blade is hand-forged by one smith. The blade looks a little busy with all the different visual elements, but at only $315 for an AS stainless-clad 240mm (on sale at Real Sharp Knife) it seemed worth a try. I think the TA branded versions run a couple hundred bucks higher.
I’ll share my impressions on it here after I get a chance to play with it a bit.
I came across a reddit post from someone who seemed to have solid info that they’re from Tojiro Atelier (TA) and forged by Tomoo Matsumura. That would explain the resemblance to Yoshikane as noted by @JayS20 . TA also makes the same Tsuchime + KU + Damascus + mirror polished bevel under their own brand so I tend to think this info is correct.
According to this info, TA is a separate operation in a new workshop where each blade is hand-forged by one smith. The blade looks a little busy with all the different visual elements, but at only $315 for an AS stainless-clad 240mm (on sale at Real Sharp Knife) it seemed worth a try. I think the TA branded versions run a couple hundred bucks higher.
I’ll share my impressions on it here after I get a chance to play with it a bit.
Giovanny Torres
Well-Known Member
I'm interested to know if the cladding is really stainless.
I've seen some sold as stainless clad and other places sell as reactive clad.
I've seen some sold as stainless clad and other places sell as reactive clad.
WiriWiri
Senior Member
I’ve considered similar, but the confusion seems so widespread (spotted it on UK retailers and then elsewhere noticed the same) that I put it down to two similar ranges from the same brand. Can‘t say that I put much thought into it mind - as nice as the Inazuma look, they‘re a bit too flash for my tastes (and I have other priorities)
Would also be Interested in seeing if there are two types out there - seems more unlikely when I type that If I’m honest. I‘m now beginning to err towards the stainless cladding - most retailers seem set on mentioning that, plus it fits it with the Tojiro connection
On K&S they seem to carry alongside their Yoshikane Amekiri line some that are of the same Nashiji finish, line called Hatsukokoro by Yoshikane.
Probably a typo but funnily enough the White #2 Hatsukokoro line is called semi-stainless clad.
Just to put some oil on that fire. I have no rationale to offer.
Probably a typo but funnily enough the White #2 Hatsukokoro line is called semi-stainless clad.
Just to put some oil on that fire. I have no rationale to offer.
I had the same confusion and decided it’s probably stainless as well, but will find out shortly. Agree they could probably delete at least 2 visual elements; it gives the impression they’re trying to appeal to first-time buyers based on flash. I’d find it just as appealing, if not more so, if they deleted the damascus, tsuchime, mirror finish, and just left the nashiji and ku. But the profile looks great so I’m hoping it’ll cut like Yoshikane’s slightly more muscular cousin.
Very weird. “Same spec but different kanji from a different channel”.
They do call out in the description that the cladding is stainless. I think “semi stainless” in the top-level description is referring to the SKD core and is probably a copy-paste typo for the White 2.
Very likely indeed. It just all doesn’t help trying to understand what’s about that maker. Most steels proposed are hardened average-low from vendors info, which is why I didn’t look much deeper into them. Just another brand. Not a bad choice at all though I guess.
iandustries
Well-Known Member
I purchased a 270mm gyuto courtesy of @JoBone with the coolest handle on my collection to date
The cladding is definitely reactive for something that is 'stainless' but nothing that a little flitz does not clean up.
Jason183
Senior Member
I had one last year from Thekniferoll, it was my first Yoshikane, Very stout blade with mid-workhorse grind, very thin BTE at the same time.
Got mine in a couple weeks ago. It’s from realsharpknife.com, a 240mm AS gyuto with one of their custom handles, about 190g. Regular price $370, scored it on sale for $315.
Fit and finish is very good, spine and choil are rounded, and it came OOTB with a good edge but one I was able to improve on (for reference I’m a mediocre sharpener). The handle was a little sticky in spots, probably from leftover glue Dustin didn’t fully clean up with the handle install; it cleaned up easily. AS is really nice to sharpen, and I took it through my SG1k and SG4k at 15 degrees per side after which it was noticeably sharper. The factory angle is lower as I could see my efforts left a microbevel covering about 1/2 of the original bevel. The blade flexes a bit at the neck when sharpening the forward third of the blade, and probably could benefit from a thicker or taller neck. I adjusted with lighter pressure and choking up on the neck.
In terms of performance it doesn’t feel as ridiculously “sharp” as my Yoshikane SKD from epic edge (210mm, 145g) but the Yoshi’s edge is pretty delicate and it’s overall more laserish. The Hatsukokoro splits the difference in feel vs my Yoshikane and Shiro Kamo R2 (210mm, 185g) - the Hatsukokoro feels a bit sharper and a bit thinner when cutting than the Kamo. I put “sharp” in quotes because in theory they’re all equally sharp at the edge, but the geometry/grind gives these knives a different feel when cutting which I just drop into the bucket of “sharp”.
The cladding is definitely reactive - see pics below. Overall a very nice knife for the price, especially if you like the decorative visual elements. A very nice midweight knife with convex righty-biased grind, leaning towards the lighter end of midweight. I’ve added a couple videos of it’s maiden voyage cutting as well; I’m a little tentative in the videos since it was my first time out with this knife and I didn’t know what to expect.
Brand new:
Patina immediately after making the cutting videos below with 1 onion and 2 bell peppers:
edit: Added the steak slicing video and a comment that the spine and choil are rounded.
Fit and finish is very good, spine and choil are rounded, and it came OOTB with a good edge but one I was able to improve on (for reference I’m a mediocre sharpener). The handle was a little sticky in spots, probably from leftover glue Dustin didn’t fully clean up with the handle install; it cleaned up easily. AS is really nice to sharpen, and I took it through my SG1k and SG4k at 15 degrees per side after which it was noticeably sharper. The factory angle is lower as I could see my efforts left a microbevel covering about 1/2 of the original bevel. The blade flexes a bit at the neck when sharpening the forward third of the blade, and probably could benefit from a thicker or taller neck. I adjusted with lighter pressure and choking up on the neck.
In terms of performance it doesn’t feel as ridiculously “sharp” as my Yoshikane SKD from epic edge (210mm, 145g) but the Yoshi’s edge is pretty delicate and it’s overall more laserish. The Hatsukokoro splits the difference in feel vs my Yoshikane and Shiro Kamo R2 (210mm, 185g) - the Hatsukokoro feels a bit sharper and a bit thinner when cutting than the Kamo. I put “sharp” in quotes because in theory they’re all equally sharp at the edge, but the geometry/grind gives these knives a different feel when cutting which I just drop into the bucket of “sharp”.
The cladding is definitely reactive - see pics below. Overall a very nice knife for the price, especially if you like the decorative visual elements. A very nice midweight knife with convex righty-biased grind, leaning towards the lighter end of midweight. I’ve added a couple videos of it’s maiden voyage cutting as well; I’m a little tentative in the videos since it was my first time out with this knife and I didn’t know what to expect.
Brand new:
Patina immediately after making the cutting videos below with 1 onion and 2 bell peppers:
edit: Added the steak slicing video and a comment that the spine and choil are rounded.
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deskjockey
Senior Member
Curious about any comments or updates after owning it a few months. Is the "Honeymoon" over?
MowgFace
Senior Member
Surprised to see wedging on the onion with that choil shot.
So since June I’ve significantly improved my sharpening game. My Hatsukokoro has mostly been sitting on the rack since I don’t have much call for a 240mm, but I decided to touch it up and give it a whirl this weekend.
I’ve gotta say it really brought home to me how much my sharpening has improved. It felt like a different knife - it cut much more smoothly, and really impressed me overall. I need to do a little side by side with it vs my Miura Itadaki Y Tanaka white 2 which is my other (new) 240mm.
I probably need to give it another go and update that video.
I’ve gotta say it really brought home to me how much my sharpening has improved. It felt like a different knife - it cut much more smoothly, and really impressed me overall. I need to do a little side by side with it vs my Miura Itadaki Y Tanaka white 2 which is my other (new) 240mm.
I probably need to give it another go and update that video.
I very lightly touched up the Hatsukokoro and Miura (Y Tanaka in white #2) on an SG4k and used them for dinner prep today. For this very small job (just a couple carrots and an onion) they were pretty close to indistinguishable for me. The Miura might be a touch smoother, but that might be either due to the grind or the extra drag from the finish on the Hatsukokoro - I suspect the Hatsukokoro would benefit from a light rub with some really high grit sandpaper or steel wool.
They both feel very solid and capable, but definitely require more force to use than either my Kurosaki AS or Yoshi SKD. They’d both be a nice go-to for a daily driver, if I didn’t prefer 210 vs 240. I’d be hard pressed to choose a favorite between the two without a lot more use. Right now my Kurosaki is the knife I reach for most often, to give you an idea of my preferences.
They both feel very solid and capable, but definitely require more force to use than either my Kurosaki AS or Yoshi SKD. They’d both be a nice go-to for a daily driver, if I didn’t prefer 210 vs 240. I’d be hard pressed to choose a favorite between the two without a lot more use. Right now my Kurosaki is the knife I reach for most often, to give you an idea of my preferences.
user 16756
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for a nice with a finish that nice, Id recommend getting something a bit gentler. plus you can use it on the Miura as well. uchi powder and felt is my preference.
I was actually thinking micro mesh. Not familiar with uchi powder but I have rottenstone and pumice handy from my woodworking days - are they similar?
Jason183
Senior Member
High grit stone slurry works too if you don’t have Uchi powders. I normally apply some 8k kitayama stone slurry to the blade surface with paper towels after the high grit sand papers, it cuts even smoother. But the main reason your Hatsukokoro causing drag is because the Nashiji finish.
Same method from 21:00 to the end
Same method from 21:00 to the end
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iandustries
Well-Known Member
I purchased a 270mm gyuto courtesy of @JoBone with the coolest handle on my collection to date
The cladding is definitely reactive for something that is 'stainless' but nothing that a little flitz does not clean up.
View attachment 131103
I've actually been contemplating selling my 270 since 225 is my jam and I rarely reach for this. That jobone handle is so stunning though
If anyone here is interested in this for $380 before I put this on BST, drop me a DM
