Help fixing a screwed up Mazaki

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TSF415

KKF Supporting Member
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I ended up getting the short end of a stick in a trade. I was told this Mazaki was sharpened only twice. I have no clue how someone could screw up a knife this bad without actually trying. Seems the front end has been way over-sharpened and created a bit of a belly. The knife is obviously super thick on the front end as you can see from the bevel.

I haven't thinned a knife before where the profile has been so drastically changed that the grind is this screwed up.

Any advice on putting a new grind on this with stones? I have a sp220 and sg500. Than plan on going king1000 and naturals.

I'm guessing someone has some life lessons they've learned from doing something similar and has some advice to pass along to make my life a little easier. lol


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I can only think there was an issue eg chipped edge, that previous owner tried to fix, clearly very poorly. Bit late now but didn't you ask for pics prior to giving the trade the green light?
 
Corradobrit1 said:
I can only think there was an issue eg chipped edge, that previous owner tried to fix, clearly very poorly. Bit late now but didn't you ask for pics prior to giving the trade the green light?
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Yes I screwed up. I got a few pics while I was working the line. Profile looked a little weird in one of them but normal at other angles. They weren't the best pics and I didn't examine them hard enough. I didn't notice the fat ass bevel and didn't ask for more pics. That ones definitely on me. Lesson learned. I was naive enough to take the "just sharpened 2 times" at face value.
 
Lol. No issue with the seller. But @ian I thought you would have some wise words of advice!

When do I start to add in convexity?

Is it something I have to take into account while doing the heavy thinning or added in after?
 
Idk, I feel like I just kinda do it when I do something like this, and I haven’t done it enough times to feel confident about my advice. I guess I’d try to get the profile mostly right first by grinding away at a reasonably low angle on the parts where you want the edge to come up. (Like, the middle of the tip belly, if you want to reduce the belly.) I’ve never been a fan of reprofiling completely by breadknifing or something, since then the edge ends up super thick in places and when you end up having to thin you might further change the profile there. So, sharpen normally at a very low angle to do the reprofiling, and then maybe adjust via breadknifing at the end to make sure it’s smooth. Then work on thinning higher up the blade. I’d probably try to cut in two more or less distinct pretty wide bevels, and then blend them well. Once you’ve thinned the fat part enough so that the thickness is more or less comparable to the rest of the blade, make sure you’re going back and forth along the whole blade when you’re doing the bevels, to ensure uniform geometry. If you hang out in one section for too long instead of working back and forth, the results will be less uniform. At the end of this, hopefully the blade will be beautiful and convex with a zero edge, and you can finish with a very small bevel at the end.
 
Looks like maybe the sharpening service got ahold of that one...
 
Sharpened twice on a belt sander.

Yeah I would say alternate thinning and reprofiling to get both jobs done concurrently. I like to trace the profile of the knife on a piece of paper and then sketch the adjustments I want to make. That way I have a rough template I can lay the knife onto while I’m working to see how the progress is going.
 
Giving the benefit of the doubt and thinking back to when I started with knives - perhaps a novice sharpener used something like an angle block and did a full progression starting at like a 220 or 400, going to a fat burr each time, on a new wide bevel knife, and also had some difficulty maintaining the angle towards the tip on the non-dominant side, overcompensating for distal taper .... ask me where I came up with that idea 😬

But yeah, as has been said, thin some, check profile, adjust for fat spots, repeat. Breadknifing has the drawback of not accounting for uneven geometry whereas thinning the whole thing to zero in one shot has the drawback of not accounting for uneven profile. Also it looks like I need to get one of the new Mazakis.
 
TSF415 said:
Lesson learned. I was naive enough to take the "just sharpened 2 times" at face value.
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TSF415 said:
Lol. No issue with the seller.
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@TSF415 Do I miss something? Don't you think it is good for the comunity if you show us the buy/sell thread (if it is on KKF)?
I guess we can seach, but why not to show it? Finally, the thread is fact, not a doubt in someone's sincerity.
 
valdim said:
@TSF415 Do I miss something? Don't you think it is good for the comunity if you show us the buy/sell thread (if it is on KKF)?
I guess we can seach, but why not to show it? Finally, the thread is fact, not a doubt in someone's sincerity.
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I think the person I traded with bought the knife from someone off Reddit. And was told it was sharpened once. He said he also sharpened once. Is he telling the truth, I don’t know. Is he just trying to pass along something he got screwed with, maybe. Is there the chance that he just didn’t know that the knife was f-upped, maybe. I’m not here to hold court over it, and decide whether or not he is truthful or deceiving. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

So what I think is good for the kkf community is that people see this post and learn from my mistakes and are more diligent in inspecting the knife before a trade. I personally find zero resolution in shaming someone who probably didn’t have any bad intentions. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong... took one for the team. Also I got a great deal on a knife the same week from someone on here who actually tracked me down to give me a great deal, sooooo..... you win some and you lose some 🤷‍♂️
 
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TSF415 said:
I think the person I traded with bought the knife from someone off Reddit. And was told it was sharpened once. He said he also sharpened once. Is he telling the truth, I don’t know. Is he just trying to pass along something he got screwed with, maybe. Is there the chance that he just didn’t know that the knife was f-upped, maybe. I’m not here to hold court over it, and decide whether or not he is truthful or deceiving. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

So what I think is good for the kkf community is that people see this post and learn from my mistakes and are more diligent in inspecting the knife before a trade. I personally find zero resolution in shaming someone who probably didn’t have any bad intentions. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong... took one for the team. Also I got a great deal on a knife the same week from someone on here from someone who actually tracked me down to give me a great deal, sooooo..... you win some and you lose some 🤷‍♂️
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Respect. That is wise and I appreciate your feedback.
 
TSF415 said:
I think the person I traded with bought the knife from someone off Reddit. And was told it was sharpened once. He said he also sharpened once. Is he telling the truth, I don’t know. Is he just trying to pass along something he got screwed with, maybe. Is there the chance that he just didn’t know that the knife was f-upped, maybe. I’m not here to hold court over it, and decide whether or not he is truthful or deceiving. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt.

So what I think is good for the kkf community is that people see this post and learn from my mistakes and are more diligent in inspecting the knife before a trade. I personally find zero resolution in shaming someone who probably didn’t have any bad intentions. If I’m wrong, I’m wrong... took one for the team. Also I got a great deal on a knife the same week from someone on here from someone who actually tracked me down to give me a great deal, sooooo..... you win some and you lose some 🤷‍♂️
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It has character! And any flaws can be fixed with a little elbow grease and time. Possibly sandpaper also.
 
@TSF415 Hey! I have a question. Now, when u fixed the problem, would you(theoretically) put the knife on BST? If yes - how much would you ask?
Note: I am not interested in a purchase, just curious how do you perceive your experience.
 
valdim said:
@TSF415 Hey! I have a question. Now, when u fixed the problem, would you(theoretically) put the knife on BST? If yes - how much would you ask?
Note: I am not interested in a purchase, just curious how do you perceive your experience.
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Minimum wage in San Francisco is $16.07 and it will probably take me 8 hrs, plus the wear on the stones, throw in a little extra for the effort, plus the pain and distress caused from it. I'm guessing I'll probably post is for $600-$700 or make it available for trade (Raquin, Comet, Yannick, Dalman, etc....). You know the usual. Probably label it as a "Mazaki (Kato-trained) 270ish mm zwilling Kramer inspired profile custom"

To actually answer your question, I'll post it for how much its worth?!?! Regardless, I'll be taking a hit on it. I originally valued it at a good price for a slightly used, almost new knife. Obviously that's not what it is. I think after doing work on it and making it a good knife again I will be able to take a smaller hit than if it was in this current state. I find it funny (most of the time) when non-professionals try to charge for their labor in altering something away from its original state. I would be transparent in the post. Just because its not original doesn't mean that it doesn't have some type of value. Theres obviously the chance that it will be more valuable to me than what someone would be willing to pay for it, in which case I keep it or sell it for pennies to some cook who needs a good knife.
 
Man, you forgot to factor in the time you spent on the forum discussing how to fix the knife. Time is money!

Proper pricing is tricky. I’d suggest

NP= OP x (A / M)^(20 x S/OW) - $10

where NP is the new price, OP is the old price, A is the skill level of the amateur knife alterer, M is the skill level of the maker, S is the amount of steel removed, and OW is the original weight.

You’re welcome.
 
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ian said:
Man, you forgot to factor in the time you spent on the forum discussing how to fix the knife. Time is money!

Proper pricing is tricky. I’d suggest

NP= OP x A^2 / (B x M)

where NP is the new price, OP is the old price, A is the skill level of the amateur knife alterer, M is the skill level of the maker, and B is the skill level of the potential buyer.
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I factored the time on the forum into the distress part. 😂
 
ian said:
Man, you forgot to factor in the time you spent on the forum discussing how to fix the knife. Time is money!

Proper pricing is tricky. I’d suggest

NP= OP x (A / M)^(20 x S/OW) - $10

where NP is the new price, OP is the old price, A is the skill level of the amateur knife alterer, M is the skill level of the maker, S is the amount of steel removed, and OW is the original weight.

You’re welcome.
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Disagree. M should be included in the term OP.
 
ian said:
It probably is! But it’s the ratio of your skill levels that should affect the decrease in value. #ImportantConversations
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Speaking of which I was in my local hardware store looking for sandpaper. When they asked me what it was for I told them I needed it for sharpening my knives. They laughed at me and then told me "you know we sharpen knives here." I told them I know because I can hear it from down the block. #thanksbutnothanks
 
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