Help get my first REAL J-knife, around 200€

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Morten San

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So yet another one of the good ol’ help the noob understand that he just needs to pull the trigger and buy all the knives Thread.
That being said, any comments and guidance will be much appreciated.

So here goes with the Questionaire

OCATION
What country are you in?

Denmark


KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in:
Gyuto 240mm

Are you right or left handed?
Right

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle?
Wa-handle

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no)
No, want Carbon knife... stainless clad is fine

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife?
210€........ ok maybe 230-240, if really worth it:)



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment?
Home

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.)

slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, slicing meat.

What knife, if any, are you replacing?
Old Raadvad sensei 19cm chef knife

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use?
Pinch + Hammer

What cutting motions do you primarily use?
Push Cut, Chopping..... not too much rocking.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)
I like plain, tsuchime, Ku
no damascus or Mirror polish

It is important to me that it is BS made, and I know who has made it. So no stamped/large factory knives

Comfort:

Weight is hard for me, but midweight or around 170 - 210g is what i imagine.

Again guesswork, but imagine balance ever so slightly ahead of pinch, but honestly dont know

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)?
Would like a flatter profile for chopping, especially towards the heel. Front can have more belly. Tip can be normal or K, both is ok.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)?
Don’t think it matters too much for my home use

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.)
Have an american walnut diy board made from kitchen counter top leftover I bought.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.)
Yes. Suehiro cerax 400 + 1000/6000 stones + leather strop

By no means an expert, but have sharpened my existing Rasdvad knives (59-60 hrc) to nice sharpness 20 or so times

Are you interested in purchasing sharpening products for your knives? (Yes or no.)
always, but not with this purchase.

I would prefer buying inside the EU, unless it makes economic sense to do otherwise. Import fees are flat 28$ + 25% VAT (haven’t found a costums rate, so if you know of any, please inform me)

Wan’t to pull the trigger by Black Friday at the latest, cause I’m quite impatient; but could be convinced to wait for stock if the perfect knife is coming back in near future.

So with this out of the way, here are my current main contenders (in no particular order)... all comments are welcome.

Yoshikane: seems a well priced all-round beginner
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/kockkniv-1-detail

Wakui: killer looks and read good things.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifebrands/wakui-sanjo/kockkniv-14-2202-detail

Moritaka: appears to tick alot of boxes at an ok price
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knife...-08-22-12-33-182013-08-22-12-33-18-912-detail

Yu Kurosaki: Too expensive
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knife...01-16-15-03-42-18582015-01-16-15-16-03-detail

Kashima Sanjo: within range, but can’t figure out who made it
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/kockkniv24_kashima_sanjo-3054-3055-3056-3057-detail

Kaeru Kasumi W#2: seems to be a good price at 183€ (cheapest) and can basically drive there and pick it up tomorrow.
https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/cart.php?suggest=5fd10e8f-8a11-4060-a90f-7efff85559cb

Anruy ao#2: would love an Anruy/Masakage but is sold out everywhere
https://www.meesterslijpers.nl/masakage-messen/katsushige-anryu-gyuto-aogami-24-cm

Kanehiro AS (old version): only read good things, love the look. Fear the belly going all the way will not fit me well.
https://www.dictum.com/en/traditional-hocho-faa/kanehiro-hocho-gyuto-fish-and-meat-knife-719935

I know its a lot, but there are others and have checked and read threads about many many more. But will leave it here, and pray that you haven’t given up on me yet.

As a p.s. anyone know if I should expect BF deals from EU vendors? Is the deals outside EU so good I should consider buying intl.?

If you made it through, THANK YOU. If you comment I would be grateful.

Stay sharp
Morten San
 
Yoshikane and Wakui are good choices, and I’d add Tanaka (Shigeki not Yoshikazu) and Mazaki. All interchangeably good choices for a first handmade Japanese carbon steel chef knife and at some point everyone should try all four.

Haven’t tried Kaeru yet but I’m trying to convince one of my guys to, good things have been said about them especially for professionals.
 
Thank you, if I would really try to narrow it down it would be between the yoshikane, wakui and Kurozaki.
Think all 3 are beautiful, but can’t figure out if one fits my description better than the other.
Also there is the steel w#2 or AS?
 
You should really consider the Munetoshi from JNS - I loved the HT on that knife. Rustic finish, but it is a great cutter. It weights around 200g (mine was nearly exactly 200g)
https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/munetoshi-kurouchi-gyuto-240mm/

Also the Hinoura is a fantastic knife, but a bit out of your price range. I have seen it life and was very impressed.
https://www.cleancut.eu/butik/knifetype/gyuto/hinoura_gyuto_240-2363-detail

I have handled the Kareu - the grind looked nice. A very nicely made knife for the money.
 
White #2 will sharpen much more easily, it will need to be sharpened far more often than AS. AS is one of my favorite steels if it has a good heat treat. Both are good steels and White #2 edge retention is definitely good enough for a home user. Truthfully I don't know anything about the three knives you've shortlisted but personally I would pick the Mazaki if JNS was the only shop I was looking at.
 
The Munetoshi is currently out of stock, but will keep an eye on it.

The Hinoura isn’t completely out of the question, but i guess i wonder what the argument would be for this over the others to warrant the extra cost.

Was hoping to narrow down the selection, lol:)

Thank you all for your comments so far..
 
From the knives you linked:
- The Wakui will be nice (they make great knives), but has less then 50 mm at the heel - would that be OK for you?
- The same goes for Moritaka. The steel is nice though
- The same goes for Yoshikane. Yoshikane does great job too, had one in SKD steel.
- Kanehiro - I would expect it to be a great cutter. I have used nakiri from them and it was great - it may well be made with Aogami Super (the nakiri was) - Dictum is not super exact on this kind of thing. They are a nice shop do deal with - returns are no problem either.

The Hinoura is taller and really nicely made. The height would be - for me - the main argument to go for it. But not everyone is after extra-tall gyutos (though it is clear trend for them recently).
 
What would be the major difference in feel/performance between the higher grinds of the kosaki and lower grinds of the Torikama?
And difference in sharpening because of this?

Thanks
 
The higher grinds would roughly speaking edge less (as they can be ground real thin) and stick more, the narrower wide bevel grinds the other way round (Munetoshi does wedge somewhat, but food release is very good), even though when the knife is forged real thin, than also the narrow wide bevels do not wedge, though the thinner they are forged&ground the worse the food release. The wider bevels really profit from a gentle hamaguri (convex grind) to improve food release, the narrower bevels work pretty well even when thin (though still profit from a gentle hamaguri). So my personal impression. My personal preference is for relatively narrow wide bevels (Munetoshi, Moritaka, Takeda, Raquin).
 
I recently purchased a Hinoura 210 and am very, very impressed. The grind is super thin behind the edge, and there's a nice hammeted-out hollow above the shinogi line so the food release on larger items (e.g. potatoes) is excellent.

My only complaint is the profile, which has a continuous belly, so if you want a flat spot, the Hinoura may not be for you.
 
Thank you everyone for all the support... WHY is this so HARD, I am sure I am overthinking this and will be happy no matter which i choose....

Sub 50mm heel would be ok, I dont have large hands.

At least I am definitely decided to buy within EU, because if I want knife dealers in the future in the EU I have to spent the money there.. as a principle.

So, the Kurosaki is a stunner, but i fear the tip is too thin for a noob (break) at 0.7mm 1cm from tip. Is this a real concern, or would it be as likely with the others. Also I cant figure out if it has a good flat spot?

The Wakui seems a complete package as well.

I am making it between these two to help me decide...

Anyone had both or is able to chime in about the difference between the two...

All your help is fantastic, and I promise we are nearly there, and Im so ready to chop **** up... soon.
 
To me the Kurosaki finish looks a little ... artificial (I much prefer the look of the Wakui ) , but the AS will hold the edge longer than the white2 on Wakui, Wakui will be easier to sharpen. The Kurosaki will be most likely thinner (taller and lighter), the Wakui more substantial in hand. I expect both to cut well - you will not make a mistake with either of them. It makes little sense to over think it. Get one you like better, use it, learn to sharpen it and find out whether it is what you wanted and if not - you will have much better idea what you want different and then you get another knife and may sell the first. The only way to find out what you really want is to try it first person for a longer period of time.
 
I am even going to play the devil's advocate and say that buying a 210 instead of 240 could be an easier start. There I would either get the Munetoshi 210 or Hinoura 210. Both are 50 tall, good weight. 210 Munetoshi is supposed to have thinned tip than the 240 (which is a little on the thick side).
 
You are just messing with me now.... But thank you. :)

If i wanted 210mm I would have gotten Anryu AS, https://www.meesterslijpers.nl/katsushige-anryu-gyuto-aogamisuper-21cm/page/2?search=Anryu

But I now have a Wakui on the way... I came in wanting Aogami, but in the end I think i will have more pleasure with the ease of sharpening the Shirogami steel, and experience of proper sharp knife.

Thank you for your patience and help in this

Pictures and general veggie ninjaness inc.
 
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I’d buy from JNS. Maksim offers a November Special section as well as -15% promo code as his equivalent to BFCM... I have seen some sweet deals in this November Special section, such as: https://www.japanesenaturalstones.com/kaeru-kasumi-white-gyuto-240mm/ I know you have mentioned the knife already, but it has become even cheaper... For me, an absolute no-brainer!

I think, if I was you, I’d buy the Kaeru. And then, once the Munetoshi is back in stock, I’d buy that one as well, compare the 2, and keep only the favorite...
 
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I ordered the Wakui, but yes JNS has a great sale and many fantastic knives and it would appear that the Munetoshi may need consideration somewhere down the line;)
But as of right now, most everything on JNS is sold out or way outside my price range.. would love to see some of his knives one day tho
I windsurf at the west coast and Close by where he is, so maybe sometime i will get to drool over his wares!
 
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