Help me pick a high grit diamond stone

[Luminaire]

Heyo, I'm looking to buy a stone that's diamond (or a coticule I suppose?) for final edge sharpening and/or stropping of wear resistant steels like magnacut / 3v / 10v / etc. I already have a fsk 400, and a jki 1000 diamond stone, to cover most of the work, but I like my edges to be a bit more refined. On low alloy steels, I generally finish in the 6000 range with a shapton or morihei. Won't be using at all for polishing, really just for final edges + touch ups.
Cant decide if I should get:
venev 1200/2000 combo- I dont really need both, likely the 1200 would be enough as that's around 4k JIS?
NSK kogyo- there are so many choices its overwhelming, hakuto 1, 2, 3, S, kyokuha...etc which? and then should I go with 3000 or 6000 grit?
coticule- never used one, keep seeing them recommended, could be interesting, but not sure if they can cut the really high alloy, wear resistant steels
JKI 6000- I have the 1k and it's great, a bit slow, but still an excellent stone, should I just pickup the 6000 of the same line?
Anything I'm missing?

 

[Rangen]

A Belgian Blue would work here, and would also be useful for finishing kitchen knives.

You don't need diamonds for "wear-resistant" steels, though you can use them. You need them for steels high in hard carbides like Vanadium Carbide.

Since you like the JKI, picking up the 6K seems like a really easy choice. Slow doesn't matter in a finishing stone.

My personal choices for this narrow task would be the BBB/FSK 3000, or the Naniwa diamond 3000, because I really like the feel of sharpening on them, and I don't happen to like the feel of sharpening on the Venevs. But stone overkill is kind of my thing.

 

[Luminaire]

A Belgian Blue would work here, and would also be useful for finishing kitchen knives.

Can a combo with a coti still cut these steels well? Or am I better off with diamonds.

You don't need diamonds for "wear-resistant" steels, though you can use them. You need them for steels high in hard carbides like Vanadium Carbide.

Thanks for the clarification- I've often wondered why steels considered wear resistant like apex ultra still work decently well with SiC/AlOx

My personal choices for this narrow task would be the BBB/FSK 3000, or the Naniwa diamond 3000, because I really like the feel of sharpening on them, and I don't happen to like the feel of sharpening on the Venevs. But stone overkill is kind of my thing.

Thanks! Ill take a look at the naniwa diamond- fsk is a bit more than I want to spend atm + im not sure if miura has them anymore. I've only used a lower grit venev and I didn't really like the feeling of it either but I wasn't sure if the OCB would feel different. Guess it's between the JKI or naniwa diamond thanks
Do you think 3000 grit is a better stopping point for these types of steels or do you just like your edges toothier? I don't want to go too high that the steel can't support it (ie. I only take vg10 to 800 or 1k)

 

[Benuser]

Can a combo with a coti still cut these steels well? Or am I better off with diamonds.

Thanks for the clarification- I've often wondered why steels considered wear resistant like apex ultra still work decently well with SiC/AlOx

Thanks! Ill take a look at the naniwa diamond- fsk is a bit more than I want to spend atm + im not sure if miura has them anymore. I've only used a lower grit venev and I didn't really like the feeling of it either but I wasn't sure if the OCB would feel different. Guess it's between the JKI or naniwa diamond thanks
Do you think 3000 grit is a better stopping point for these types of steels or do you just like your edges toothier? I don't want to go too high that the steel can't support it (ie. I only take vg10 to 800 or 1k)

Are you sure you're getting rid of the VG-10 burr with a 800 or 1k?

 

[harken]

Potentially the NSK oboro line. Harder than the other NSK lines with higher diamond density. Also kinda $$

 

[M1k3]

Can a combo with a coti still cut these steels well? Or am I better off with diamonds.

Thanks for the clarification- I've often wondered why steels considered wear resistant like apex ultra still work decently well with SiC/AlOx

Thanks! Ill take a look at the naniwa diamond- fsk is a bit more than I want to spend atm + im not sure if miura has them anymore. I've only used a lower grit venev and I didn't really like the feeling of it either but I wasn't sure if the OCB would feel different. Guess it's between the JKI or naniwa diamond thanks
Do you think 3000 grit is a better stopping point for these types of steels or do you just like your edges toothier? I don't want to go too high that the steel can't support it (ie. I only take vg10 to 800 or 1k)

The OCB Venev's feel much better than the coarse one. Much much better.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Can a combo with a coti still cut these steels well? Or am I better off with diamonds.

My coticules can cut S30V while my BBWs just polish it. Don't have a wide breadth of experience on the higher alloyed stuff but just dropping what I know.

 

[MSicardCutlery]

I regularly finish MagnaCut on a BBW. I've tried it on S90v, Zwear, and 10v, and while it's amazing on Zwear, it's lackluster on the 10v and S90v. Venev diamond stones are great, and I've heard good things about the Naniwa diamond stones. >3k is a bit overkill for kitchen knives. The better my deburring game gets the more I find myself liking even just a stropped 240 grit Venev edge.

 

[Just a DK]

Venev has changed the game on me and kind of stopped using the Ouka.

Now I just go Venev 800 -> strop for killer edge on my PM steels so far tested on CPM-Cruwear and CPM-M-4... will probably be tempted into doing it for CPM-4v soon....

 

[Luminaire]

The naniwa 3k diamond is on Amazon for cheaper than the jki stone, I guess we have a winner. Thanks all

 

[bermuda_chub]

Is it possible to find Venev 8” stones right now? All I can find are small/ skinny ones.

 

[Luminaire]

Only seen them in very limited grits atm
https://hapstone.pro/stones/diamond-and-cbn/venev-8-x-3-dragon-series-dual-side-diamond

 

[bermuda_chub]

I wouldn’t know what to do with those grits.

 

[kayman67]

Is it possible to find Venev 8” stones right now? All I can find are small/ skinny ones.

Possible, but most lower grits aren't available.
For your reference, 800 is roughly a 3000 finish, 1200 a 5000 finish, 2000 aimed for much finer finish, but has residual scratches so it can't be considered as such. But 1200 will get a mirror like polish on most things.

 

[ptolemy]

Possible, but most lower grits aren't available.
For your reference, 800 is roughly a 3000 finish, 1200 a 5000 finish, 2000 aimed for much finer finish, but has residual scratches so it can't be considered as such. But 1200 will get a mirror like polish on most things.

I think, to clarify, you mean that 2000 will get you a much finer edge i.e 8-10k finish, but if you want POLISHED mirror like edge, that stone is not it and you should stick to finer naturals or synthetic

 

[1315]

I wouldn’t know what to do with those grits.

@bermuda_chub : Don't worry, we'll help ya. Just buy. Buy 'em ALL!

 

[Justinv]

I would suggest the Venev 800/1200. I don’t use the 1200 and find the 800 great for anything. Further refinement can come from a loaded strop. As previously mentioned the 800 is somewhere in the 3K JIS range. I only suggest this in case you want to try the 1200. I think the Venev 400/800 would make a great one stone solution for midgrit and finisher.

 

[M1k3]

I would suggest the Venev 800/1200. I don’t use the 1200 and find the 800 great for anything. Further refinement can come from a loaded strop. As previously mentioned its somewhere in the 3K range. I only suggest this in case you want to try the 1200. I think the Venev 400/800 would make a great one stone solution for midgrit and finisher.

The 400/800 stone is great!

 

[nopomo]

The Venev 1200/2000 that I have (which might be the older formulation) is godawful, only thing it’s good for is resurfacing Arkansas stones. I like the EZE-LAP Super Fine plate for diamonds in the ~3000 JIS range-still going strong after more than a decade. Poly diamonds leave a surprisingly uniform scratch pattern for being electroplated.

For a (somewhat quick and dirty) comparison, I prepped the bevel on this higonokami with Nano Hone 200, King 300, Shapton Pro 1500. The Venevs somehow manage to simultaneously burnish and gouge.

 

[kayman67]

Even if I also had the old ones, I can't remember if they were all boron based or not. Been a while.