High end frying pan recommendation

[user 16756]

I also suspect that Cu is used in these clad pans because of a combination of it's marketing cachet (tradition and the fact that it's expensive) and it's slightly superior thermal properties. I'd love to see some actual comparative testing on heat transfer and responsiveness to show if there was actually any significant difference between Cu clad, Al clad or combinations of Cu and Al.

I remember the bare Al pots and pans in the 80s. I have read that Al is only reactive in strong alkali or long dwell times in very strong acid. Bare Cu seems to be much more reactive. The upshot is that I'm unclear whether Al poisoning is a significant problem in the real world but I am taking a precautionary approach. OTOH, it is pretty clear that the PFOA based coatings that were originally used to solve the Al toxicity issue are a problem.

Anodised Al is an interesting solution but I don't think it very durable.

this is something. not authoritative, of course, but interesting nonetheless

https://www.centurylife.org/cookware-even-heating-rankings-induction-and-electric/

 

[M1k3]

Does heavy aluminum brown as well as cast iron? Like in the oven?

Not quite as easily as cast iron but yes it does. The thicker/heavier, the better.

 

[Helicon]

aluminum heats up and cools down extremely quickly whereas copper is much slower to do both. Copper will hold the heat and radiate it across its mass. Aluminum will respond faster.

You have them backwards. Aluminum retains heat longer and responds more slowly than copper, all other things being equal. But you have to make sure other things *are* equal.

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

You have them backwards. Aluminum retains heat longer and responds more slowly than copper, all other things being equal. But you have to make sure other things *are* equal.

Agreed. As you said, so long as all things are equal.

 

[Jovidah]

Given that aluminum and cast iron react equally to acids, I’ve always wondered why nobody forms pans out of raw 12mm sheets of aluminum. There must be a reason, I just don’t know it

Main reason they're out of vogue: it won't work on induction. Hence the rising popularity of clad pans, and why disk bottoms always have a slab of 18/0 on the bottom.

 

[Helicon]

Main reason they're out of vogue: it won't work on induction. Hence the rising popularity of clad pans, and why disk bottoms always have a slab of 18/0 on the bottom.

Well, nothing that thick existed even before induction started making inroads. So, it's still probably a combination of factors, including perceived lack of demand as well as the higher cost of tooling & equipment upkeep.

Besides, what would be the advantage of having 12 mm thick aluminum cookware? It's hard to think of any.

Interestingly, however, there is some induction-capable bare aluminum cookware made by Ballarini and Agnelli these days. They just affix a thin interface disc along the bottom.

 

[Jovidah]

Interestingly, however, there is some induction-capable bare aluminum cookware made by Ballarini and Agnelli these days. They just affix a thin interface disc along the bottom.

Never saw those here without any teflon coating, so I have a feeling the demand just isn't really there anymore. It's a shame because from a thermal perspective those fat aluminium pans are actually quite nice.

 

[Helicon]

Never saw those here without any teflon coating, so I have a feeling the demand just isn't really there anymore. It's a shame because from a thermal perspective those fat aluminium pans are actually quite nice.

Yes, they're not available in shops outside Italy that I've seen, but you can source them occasionally on Amazon Italy and a few other websites:

http://www.ballariniprofessionale.it/prodottiSerie6800_ita.php/idserie=23and
http://www.pentoleagnelli.it/index....nee/2014-05-14-15-47-45/alluminio-3mm-pro-ind

 

[Jovidah]

Interesting. I think I actually have some housebrand pan that's made by them... looks the exact same but teflon coated. From a thermal perspective it's a really great pan.

 

[Chips]

I should have taken some before and after photos. My barely used Matfer pan taco-d something crazy and barely made contact with my burner, spinning like a top. I just used a metal ruler to see the convexity on the bottom and beat the hell out of it with a nylon mallet. It's now sitting flat (-er), but I might be in this boat again since its an electric coil stove and the base of the pan is a good inch and a half wider than the largest element. All of this, even with pre-heating slowly before bringing it up to high heat.

I'm going to be irked if I have to keep doing this. So will my neighbors from the noise.

 

[Luftmensch]

The water that comes out of my tap is probably a lot more toxic than anything I do with aluminium.

Is that because you secretly suspect it is poo? Sorry!! I couldn't leave that one open ... I know you aren't in Poowoomba!!

... Seriously though... parts of Australia really have to consider that sort of thing - indeed, some are setting a high bar. Now back to pans!!

 

[Luftmensch]

Right, though emissivity is directly related to emission of infrared energy, which can be useful cooking certain foods – usually only in dry environments, though. Think about roasting game birds in a bare cast iron skillet in the oven, for example.

True; water vapour will attenuate IR. But in the short distances of a dutch oven, I am sure plenty of IR is bouncing around even if it is humid.

I guess the point I'm trying to make, in case it isn't clear, is that there isn't *one* ideal material for cookware. Each material has its own set of unique advantages and disadvantages, and it's a cook's job to recognize and make the most (and the least) of these.

Oh for sure. No arguments there!

 

[coxhaus]

I have been cooking on my new All-Clad copper core 5 qt sauté' pan and I like it. It seems to be reactive enough that if the flame is too high or low you can tell right off. With my old silver disc pan if I got the flame to high by the time, I knew it and turned it down the pan was way too hot. When I turned the silver disc pan down it took too long to react.

 

[Nemo]

If he's just looking for an upgrade from All-Clad, I'd be inclined to recommend Demeyere Industry5 or Proline. They both have much more conductive material than All-Clad, plus more comfortable handles, etc. If he doesn't care about conductive sidewalls, then he should look at thick aluminum disc pans from Sitram or Paderno (aka Vollrath Centurion), Fissler etc. Some of the Paderno models have about 6-7 mm of aluminum in their bases, which means they're more even-heating than copper and have more heat retention, too. Those are the attributes that truly matter in a skillet.

I've been trying to work out what sort of cooking/ food should make me want a clad skillet instead of a thick aluminum disc-ed skillet. Any ponters?

 

[rickbern]

I've been trying to work out what sort of cooking/ food should make me want a clad skillet instead of a thick aluminum disc-ed skillet. Any ponters?

I think it’s mostly the geometry of the pan. I agree with the demeyere philosophy that skillets are best clad with conductive sidewalls while sauté pans, rondeaus and Dutch ovens are best with thick disk bases.

Except when they’re thick copper, thick copper pots are always wonderful.

 

[rickbern]

I've been trying to work out what sort of cooking/ food should make me want a clad skillet instead of a thick aluminum disc-ed skillet. Any ponters?

Nemo, here’s a comprehensive review of a disk based skillet. I don’t like these on gas because the flame licks up the side and burns the food but I liked them better than clad on an electric coil stove

https://www.centurylife.org/in-dept...s-2100-11-inch-paella-pan-skillet-frying-pan/

 

[Nemo]

Nemo, here’s a comprehensive review of a disk based skillet. I don’t like these on gas because the flame licks up the side and burns the food but I liked them better than clad on an electric coil stove

https://www.centurylife.org/in-dept...s-2100-11-inch-paella-pan-skillet-frying-pan/

Thanks for the link. It looks like they are saying one issue with these is that the very edge of the base doesn't get as much heat unless the disc goes all the way to the edge.

 

[Helicon]

I've been trying to work out what sort of cooking/ food should make me want a clad skillet instead of a thick aluminum disc-ed skillet. Any ponters?

Basically stuff that's going to be very quick cooking, light or thin – a veggie or mushroom sauté, chicken or veal scallopini, etc. Ideally you'd have pre-blanched the veg and are just sautéing to give them color. The heated sidewalls will make mushroom sticking less of a concern. Such skillets are usually lighter weight and so easier to toss food in, if that's your thing.

But in general, for the sorts of things I use them to make, I prefer aluminum disc-based skillets.

 

[Helicon]

Thanks for the link. It looks like they are saying one issue with these is that the very edge of the base doesn't get as much heat unless the disc goes all the way to the edge.

This concern is pretty overblown, in my experience. On a gas cooktop, unless you're really blasting that perimeter (without the disc) on a super wide burner, you won't have problems. On electric or induction, it does stay marginally cooler, but it's not been a problem with anything I've cooked. Usually that area is only about 1 cm wide, often less.

 

[rickbern]

Thanks for the link. It looks like they are saying one issue with these is that the very edge of the base doesn't get as much heat unless the disc goes all the way to the edge.

Exactly. That’s what demeyere, fissler and paderno grand gourmet do with their sauté pans, the disks go right to the edge. Kinda impossible to do with any sort of gradually sloping skillet.

The shape of the pan and the type of heat source you’re using determines your choices probably more so than what you’re cooking in it

 

[coxhaus]

Nemo maybe try both and decide for yourself. I tried a disc based 12-inch fry pan on my Viking gas range and I hated it. I tried an All-Clad D5 and it was better than my old disc pan. But I like the All-Clad copper core even better than the D5. Since you have gas, I would not recommend the AC D5. I had one of those and I really liked the copper core better. I sold my D5. I read the AC D5 works well on induction but I don't have induction so I have no way to tell. I have lots of old Le Creuset pans and pots that I can fall back on if I have a hankering. I just like the fast reaction time on the All-Clad right now and it seems to cook fine for me on my Viking range. The pans are also very light but cook even for me. This is what I discovered cooking at home. There may be some good prices on used All-Clad D3 right now. This would give you a cheap way to try it.

I liked my All-Clad copper core so much on my range I bought a 5 qt sauté' pan the one I started with, a 12-inch fry pan, and a 7-piece copper core set so I could have the 8 qt stock pot. This site has cost me some money over the last year. But it has also taught me a lot. I think I am a better cook now.

 

[coxhaus]

I have an old Viking triply 3.4 qt sauté' pan made in the USA. It is label on the bottom made in the USA. I like it. I really like the size and shape. I assume All-Clad made it for them. Does anybody know?
It seems a little heavier than my All-Clad pans. I have a copper core 3 qt arriving today to really compare to. It is in my set arriving today. I think my copper core has a more even cooking than my Viking pan so I like the copper core better. When cooking onions in oil I get a few going brown quicker so they are not as uniform when cooking as my copper core 5 qt.

 

[coxhaus]

Just read a review of the best induction cookware sets for 2021. It gave me a good laugh. The top 2 are China made. The best All-Clad is China made. Guess I know where funding is coming from.

 

[M1k3]

Just read a review of the best induction cookware sets for 2021. It gave me a good laugh. The top 2 are China made. The best All-Clad is China made. Guess I know where funding is coming from.

Advertisers? All-clad?

 

[spaceconvoy]

Anyone notice how most of the top knife makers are Japanese?! I blame the emperor

 

[coxhaus]

Advertisers? All-clad?

My guess is China is funding in some way. Or the writer doesn't know sh$$t. I don't think any of the pans being talked about here is even an option. Well All-Clad D3 is down toward the bottom.

 

[M1k3]

My guess is China is funding in some way. Or the writer doesn't know sh$$t.

My money would be on All-Clad or hired marketing company contacting the reviewer and saying "For a quality review, would you like some free stuff and a small stipend? "

 

[coxhaus]

My money would be on All-Clad or hired marketing company contacting the reviewer and saying "For a quality review, would you like some free stuff and a small stipend? "

But All-Clad was not rated very high and the China made was rated higher than the USA made.

 

[M1k3]

But All-Clad was not rated very high and the China made was rated higher than the USA made.

 

[user 16756]

My guess is China is funding in some way. Or the writer doesn't know sh$$t. I don't think any of the pans being talked about here is even an option. Well All-Clad D3 is down toward the bottom.

yeah man the communist party of China is waging a broad sweeping campaign to influence irrelevant online reviews to get Americans to buy Chinese goods, because we dont buy enough of them already.