High end frying pan recommendation

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deskjockey said:
I don't have a thick copper skillet and my only tin lined pan is a ~2qt sauce pan. Most of mine is the 2.5mm thick stainless lined Mauviel line of Sauce Pans.

My tin lined copper sauce pan is at least 3mm thick and a joy to use. It is dead flat even from base to rim as best I can tell without scientific instruments.

I can't say the Lagostina ACCADEMIA LAGOFUSION is that even but, it is a different and larger pan. What I typically do is put it on an undersized burner and simmer stews. The simmer itself is consistent whether looking at the sides or center of the stew.

I say this coming from an uneven electric cooktop with poor temperature control.
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When you cook onions or garlic, can you leave them in your high end stainless without stirring it or moving them around?
 
Jville said:
When you cook onions or garlic, can you leave them in your high end stainless without stirring it or moving them around?
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if you have the right stove and a proper pan then yes.

I assume we're not talking about dry here, right? with even a bit of butter/oil it's fine.

the 7 layer stuff is exceptionally even heating. you just have to know the right setting on the stove whereas with copper you can easily adjust.
 
Jville said:
When you cook onions or garlic, can you leave them in your high end stainless without stirring it or moving them around?
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Yes, recently I tested a Hestan Nanobond skillet with a full red onion on modest heat with a splash of oil and I saw no need for moving them around to even things out. After a few minutes they were evenly softened and ready for the next stage of the cooking process. The Demeyere Proline skillets are similar. I suspect most of the better stainless skillets MADE IN EUROPE would pass this test fairly easily. There is a French brand or series called Cristal I have heard about that sounds interesting and I hope to give one a 'test drive' some day.

In terms of garlic, I don't typically fry or perfume oils with it so, that is still an open unanswered question for me. However, I would be surprised if the results were significantly different though I think garlic is probably a bit more heat sensitive with its lower moisture content.
 
tcmx3 said:
if you have the right stove and a proper pan then yes.

I assume we're not talking about dry here, right? with even a bit of butter/oil it's fine.

the 7 layer stuff is exceptionally even heating. you just have to know the right setting on the stove whereas with copper you can easily adjust.
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Good points! If you overheat stainless, it isn't very responsive to cooling quickly so, if you let things get out of hand it can end in disaster.

My current cooktop really sucks so, if I DON'T have good quality pans, my meals are generally terrible unless I hover over them while on the stove. COVID totally go me with my kitchen renovation as costs skyrocketed and the few people around me went to the big cities for big bucks. I'm hoping by January things will have cooled down and I move forward with the renovation. My oven totally died and a new one can't be retrofitted easily. With the cooktop, I have considered just ripping it out myself and going to Lowes/Home Depot for a new one to hack into the counter until a more permanent solution can be found.

Instead I have "splurged" a little on some imported cookware from Europe which is dealing with the end-of-life cooktop I have right now.
 
tcmx3 said:
if you have the right stove and a proper pan then yes.

I assume we're not talking about dry here, right? with even a bit of butter/oil it's fine.

the 7 layer stuff is exceptionally even heating. you just have to know the right setting on the stove whereas with copper you can easily adjust.
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The thing about copper tin lined pans, it doesn’t matter if the stove is good or not. They are still going to perform the same way, exceptionally… Yeah, definitely not dry.
 
If someone spots a good deal on a thick copper skillet, please let me know! Of course this assumes you aren't buying it. :)
 
deskjockey said:
Smooth finished or textured like the cheap Lodge cast iron both work IF you know how to use and maintain them IMHO.
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Oh! For sure... I am just observing that in my experience, seasoning tends to be more tenacious when there is some texture to adhere to.


tcmx3 said:
there's a wide spectrum of good thermal masses and finishes. I dont think mirrored is on that, but that's me.
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Mirrored not on the spectrum?? Sure it is... it is on the pointless/stupid side of the spectrum 😂

I remember my goal was something like smoothing the pan down to 240 or 400... this was based on the smoother is better nonsense. A lot of the heavy work can be done with power tools (flap discs etc) - so it doesn't have to be a big job. By the time I got to that grit I thought "what the hell" and went up to 1200 followed by a buffing wheel. It was a nice summer day and beer was involved. The iron was so reactive it wanted to oxidise so the 'mirror' would tarnish really quickly.


deskjockey said:
An easy way for Lodge to cut the weight and keep the existing qualities would be to thin the sides of the pan similar to Stargazer.
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This is close to what Blacklock pans are.... I think people were generally annoyed they didnt go the whole hog and smooth out the cooking surfaces.



I am still tempted by the new-fangled thing... when I do venture into those pastures it will be an Äüs-ïöñ (👈 @juice, proper spelling)... maybe i'll grab an usudeba on the way out 😛...
 
What's the story with SolidTeknics AUS-ION? Is it just relatively thin and polished Australian cast iron? Is it something more? What am I missing?
 
Luftmensch said:
@daizee, can you expand on that?

I went through a long period of coveting the newer, sexier cast iron. To an extent, i still do. There is no doubt; they have more precise and refined manufacturing.

In Australia there isn't as a huge vintage market. Similarly, boutique cast iron does not have much of a presence either... and the shipping would be astronomical! I was excited when Lodge released their Blacklock line - not necessarily because they were 'better' than any of the other new generation cast iron (they are 'worse'). I was excited because Lodge have a big enough distribution network that it was inevitable Blacklock would be sold in Australia... and it now is.

I eventually handled a Blacklock skillet in a store and was underwhelmed. It was a bit deflating! I know simply inspecting one is a far cry from cooking with it.... But the pan just felt insubstantial compared to the regular lodge offering. Certainly not what I have come to associate with cast iron - a thermal freight train. There is a strange irony there given that part of the attraction of the new generation pans is that they are lighter. But that felt 'wrong' in my hands. Perhaps that is just a case of misaligned expectations?

I have also done an about face on pan smoothness. I probably have a good claim to the (once) smoothest cast iron on KKF. Years ago I polished one of my cast iron skillets to a near mirror (just because I could). The smoother the better? Right? I got frustrated with how poorly the seasoning adhered to the surface. To resolve this, I roughed up the surface with low grit paper. Even then it took a long time to accrue durable seasoning. It does seem like a textured surface helps the seasoning adhere! The best option might be a machined surface (so it is flat) followed by low grit sandblasting for texture.


I am on the edge of buy an Aus-Ion pan. I am semi-interested in a carbon steel pan but don't need one. Aus-Ion looks like a carbon / cast iron hybrid... somewhere in between with regards to thermal mass.
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What you did was probably way excessive and sounds like it didn’t work. What they did back in the day with those vintage cast iron was smooth and it holds seasoning just as well and are better IMO. Unless, you are doing sone crazy stuff with them they should hold up just fine and the smoothness is more nonstick. I like mine way better than newer clunkier rough ones.
 
deskjockey said:
Thanks for the clarification! That is an interesting choice for those pans.
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It's much lighter than cast. It seasons very vell. Finer grained than most cast iron I have seen. I prefer it to steel for searing meat. I get the impression that it is a little more forgiving than steel as regards needing to hit the sweet spot for temperature before putting the food in it. I assume this has something to do with it's thermodynamic properties. Not sure if this is because it retains more heat or transfers it more readily than steel does.
 
Wrought iron has slightly higher (~9%) heat capacity than cast iron. Conductivity of wrought iron is slightly better as well.
 
deskjockey said:
What's the story with SolidTeknics AUS-ION?
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Correct spelling... please!! :p

Nemo said:
wrought iron
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Michi said:
Wrought iron
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This is where marketing meets engineering.

It depends on what you mean by 'wrought'.... Wrought iron typically refers to dirty bloomery iron - it contains a lot of sh!t that was trapped in the slag. Most but not all of the slag is worked ('wrought') out of the melt. That is why wrought iron has a beautiful, wood-like grain. I don't think modern industry uses wrought iron for anything these days - just arty/crafty things (I could be wrong on this point).

Our steel manufacturing is far more controlled and clean these days. Clean 'wrought iron' is really just low-carbon steel... And if you sift through enough of the Äüs-ïöñ marketing material, they refer to the pans (parenthetically) as 'formed low-carbon steel'. Back to 'wrought' and 'formed'.... 'wrought' can also mean 'bent'... or 'formed' if you will!

So Äüs-ïöñ are 'formed' out of low-carbon steel - I'd love to see this. They must have a great big hydraulic ram punching low-carbon sheets into a die? I am sure the same is true for Ñöñï (except with stainless steel sheets).

Luftmensch said:
Aus-Ion looks like a carbon / cast iron hybrid...
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They are thick low-carbon steel pans!

🙃
 
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Luftmensch said:
So Äüs-ïöñ are 'formed' out of low-carbon steel - I'd love to see this.

They are thick low-carbon steel pans!

🙃
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interesting.


Makes me wonder whether the perceived difference to my DeBuyer is real or perceived. I guess it could have something to do with the shape, thickness or finish. Or it could be all in my head...
 
Nemo said:
Makes me wonder whether the perceived difference to my DeBuyer is real or perceived. I guess it could have something to do with the shape, thickness or finish. Or it could be all in my head...
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Could be, I guess, but I sold my DeBuyer once I got the Solidteknics.
 
I need another pan like I need a swift kick in the head. ButI just now saw this advertisement from one of my favorite ceramics makers here in California, Heath Ceramics, who often pairs with other high end makers to offer cool kitchen stuff.

Anyway, the price isn't too bad and it appears to be a well made high wall 8" sauté pan. I like the handle and the height. Im almost tempted to pick one up. I just might if I can avoid shipping costs.


https://www.heathceramics.com/products/saute-pan-no-20?variant=39355864219735
1627464063320.png
 
Nemo said:
interesting.


Makes me wonder whether the perceived difference to my DeBuyer is real or perceived. I guess it could have something to do with the shape, thickness or finish. Or it could be all in my head...
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juice said:
Could be, I guess, but I sold my DeBuyer once I got the Solidteknics.
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I would tend to think it is in the "all in my head" subjective territory personally. The main difference appears to be thickness and weight of the pans in question.
 
Chips said:
I need another pan like I need a swift kick in the head. ButI just now saw this advertisement from one of my favorite ceramics makers here in California, Heath Ceramics, who often pairs with other high end makers to offer cool kitchen stuff.

Anyway, the price isn't too bad and it appears to be a well made high wall 8" sauté pan. I like the handle and the height. Im almost tempted to pick one up. I just might if I can avoid shipping costs.


https://www.heathceramics.com/products/saute-pan-no-20?variant=39355864219735View attachment 135697
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Home | Darto International
s504873417511024993_p1_i1_w800.jpeg

I have two of these pans and like them a lot. The are made from a single piece of steel so, NO RIVETS! :LOL:

The little n.15 is one I use a lot. I don't know where the DeBuyer equivalent that was in my kitchen went ...
 
deskjockey said:
I would tend to think it is in the "all in my head" subjective territory personally. The main difference appears to be thickness and weight of the pans in question.
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And that's the danger of opining on stuff that you haven't used. If nothing else, the usability of the Solidteknics was well ahead of the DeBuyer.
 
I have a full set of the original Darto pans and like them a lot. They changed the design by making the edges less flared and also changed their seasoning process, so I have no experience with the current lineup. But I've ordered from them a bunch direct from Argentina, and have always been happy with their pans. My favorite is their larger paella; I have a No. 34, but the current offering is a No. 35. It sees a lot of action, from frying chicken, to roasting veg, to searing steaks, to serving nachos. I'll buy several of their smaller ones when I eventually buy a nice countertop oven.

Since people mentioned wanting to see the Aus-ION manufacturing process, I'll submit the OG Darto press where all my pans were formed:

darto press.jpg
 
juice said:
And that's the danger of opining on stuff that you haven't used. If nothing else, the usability of the Solidteknics was well ahead of the DeBuyer.
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I guess this really depends on what you mean by "opining".

Analysis of similarities and differences is all we have we have in addition to personal reviews of owners before we buy products we can't see or touch in person. If someone has broad experience with a lot of different, but not the same, pans I think it is valid to point out observations and what those probably mean in a new pan. It's when someone is spouting off with no real knowledge that we get into "opining territory" generally IMHO.

My DeBuyer "mineral" pans are certainly smooth and heavy, my standard Lodge is heavy and rough (or textured), and my Lodge Chef's pans and Blacklock are lighter weight and smoother though not as smooth as DeBuyer. I also have thinner DeBuyer pans than the Mineral series to compare too.

Wrought iron vs. Cast iron vs. stamped steel differences can also be compared in a similar way.

Whether someone wants to spend the 'coin' to 'test drive' an Australian pan to prove or disprove any of these points is fine if they want to. Personally, if I have a $100 or more to spend on another skillet, I'm probably going to Europe not Australia because I like those pans and the risk is very low of getting something I won't like. In reality, I bought a Stargazer skillet instead! ;)

Aus-Ion is probably a good pan for my uses and perhaps if they weren't so expensive when I went with the EU options originally, I would be a Solidteknics fan but, I think there is also a bit of 'snake oil' and 'huksterism' in all of this for marketing sake (and I mean this in the general sense for the entire cookware industry, not just the pans in question).. Do Japanese knives have some magical or mystical properties due to the iron sands from Japan or is it really all about the skill of the bladesmith, and a similarly performing knife or sword from Europe or North America would perform the same way if the same skill in construction was used?
 
juice said:
Oh no, I'm not suggesting that, the prices (as I keep saying) are nutso unless you can get a good discount 🙃
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It looks like they have a 7.5" skillet for $49USD in the USA so, that's almost a "try me" price. At $61 with shipping not inclusive of Tax though, it is still a bit spendy. However, a "Black Friday" or "Thanksgiving" sale could certainly sway me to give one a whirl.

Seasoned 7.5" Wrought Iron Lightning Skillet — SOLIDteknics USA
 
I was interested in Aus Ion until I found out the founder was the guy who made Füri knives.
 
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