High grit stone suggestion

[Seemore]

Hi. I’m seeking suggestions for a stone, 5K-9K, most likely synthetic. At this grit level it could be hard to find, but I like stones that have some traction, grindy-ness, and okay, a little grittier feel. Extra points if I can hear it.
Reviews of some stones say “excellent feedback”, but also say “creamy”. Those two things don’t go together for me, though I certainly respect that they might for someone else.
Other observations, such as hardness and clogging, would be welcome, but of secondary importance to me.
The application will mostly be edge refining, and occasionally ura sharpening, not polishing for beauty. Thanks.

 

[stringer]

Hi. I’m seeking suggestions for a stone, 5K-9K, most likely synthetic. At this grit level it could be hard to find, but I like stones that have some traction, grindy-ness, and okay, a little grittier feel. Extra points if I can hear it.
Reviews of some stones say “excellent feedback”, but also say “creamy”. Those two things don’t go together for me, though I certainly respect that they might for someone else.
Other observations, such as hardness and clogging, would be welcome, but of secondary importance to me.
The application will mostly be edge refining, and occasionally ura sharpening, not polishing for beauty. Thanks.

For what you are describing I would recommend the Shapton Pro 12k.

 

[SwampDonkey]

JKI diamond 6k fits this nicely. Definitely has a little traction.

Can't remember, do you have any BBW or coticules? Just for some cross reference on likes/dislikes if you've tried them.

 

[Rangen]

Soakers can be a good way to get a bit of gritty feel even at high grit. The Gesshin 6000 and 8000, which I have, are like that.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It's been a while since I last used them but I have slices of a couple of Sigma Power (not Select II) stones and I think at least one of them would fit your description. I'll try to get those out tomorrow and refresh my memory.

You might look at (reviews of) the Suehiro G-8 too. It is reputed to be a cutter at 8000.

 

[rockbot]

naniwa 10 k
Shapton pro 8k
Shapton rock star 10k
shapton pro 12k
from softer left to harder right

 

[Seemore]

JKI diamond 6k fits this nicely. Definitely has a little traction.

Good to know - it would be my first diamond stone and worth considering.

Can't remember, do you have any BBW or coticules? Just for some cross reference on likes/dislikes if you've tried them.

Yes, my BBW, which from previous discussions compares to others as quite fast and hard, gets cycled in sometimes. Lately especially for touch ups or deburring.

 

[Seemore]

Soakers can be a good way to get a bit of gritty feel even at high grit. The Gesshin 6000 and 8000, which I have, are like that.

Thanks. You mean the ceramics (vs resinoids)?

 

[Seemore]

It's been a while since I last used them but I have slices of a couple of Sigma Power (not Select II) stones and I think at least one of them would fit your description. I'll try to get those out tomorrow and refresh my memory.

You might look at (reviews of) the Suehiro G-8 too. It is reputed to be a cutter at 8000.

Sigma Power stones seem not reliably available these days. My Power Select II stones (240, 1K & 3K) are my most often-used stones, each in their grit range, because of my preferences outlined in my original post, plus they’re so fast. I considered the Power Select II 10K for this application, but thought to try something else.

 

[Seemore]

For what you are describing I would recommend the Shapton Pro 12k.

Can you say why 12K vs the SP 8K? I’ve never had a shapton stone (!) so this sounds interesting.

 

[stringer]

I have a Shapton Glass 8k. It creates a very sharp toothless straight razor shave worthy edge. That creamy, glassy feel on the stones. The Shapton Pro 12k seems to be more of a knife stone. A bit toothier and grittier on the feel. Like maybe from a mixture of grit sizes or something. As opposed to the Naniwa Super Stone 12k which is again a very smooth toothless polisher.

Both stones improve the Shapton Glass 8k edge. But I consider the SP12k to be a better knife stone and the SS12k to be a better razor finisher. How much of this is placebo or confirmation bias or whatever who knows.

I prefer the Shapton Glass 2K for knives and the Shapton Pro 1500 for razors for the same reasons. However I've seen people express precisely the opposite impressions in regards to the this two stones, so who knows? But when I read the description of what you are looking for it reminds me of the SP 12k. FWIW YMMV etc.

Can you say why 12K vs the SP 8K? I’ve never had a shapton stone (!) so this sounds interesting.

 

[Seemore]

I have a Shapton Glass 8k. It creates a very sharp toothless straight razor shave worthy edge. That creamy, glassy feel on the stones. The Shapton Pro 12k seems to be more of a knife stone. A bit toothier and grittier on the feel. Like maybe from a mixture of grit sizes or something. As opposed to the Naniwa Super Stone 12k which is again a very smooth toothless polisher.

Both stones improve the Shapton Glass 8k edge. But I consider the SP12k to be a better knife stone and the SS12k to be a better razor finisher. How much of this is placebo or confirmation bias or whatever who knows.

I prefer the Shapton Glass 2K for knives and the Shapton Pro 1500 for razors for the same reasons. However I've seen people express precisely the opposite impressions in regards to the this two stones, so who knows? But when I read the description of what you are looking for it reminds me of the SP 12k. FWIW YMMV etc.

Thanks for the detail. Last question (today) I promise:
I’m definitely of the school, fewer stones = fewer mistakes. I often just use a Chosera 2K to one other stone (4K ish, full burr), when a strop or ceramic rod aren’t enough. Do you think jumping from the 2K to partial refinement on SP 12K is a worthwhile prospect for sharpening carbon kitchen knives?

 

[stringer]

Thanks for the detail. Last question (today) I promise:
I’m definitely of the school, fewer stones = fewer mistakes. I often just use a Chosera 2K to one other stone (4K ish, full burr), when a strop or ceramic rod aren’t enough. Do you think jumping from the 2K to partial refinement on SP 12K is a worthwhile prospect for sharpening carbon kitchen knives?

Absolutely. I do most of my "sharpening" on very coarse stones. Usually a Shapton Glass 120 or a Crystolon Coarse. Then a little refinement on a mid grit stone (Naniwa Diamond 600, Shapton Pro 1K or Shapton Glass 2k depending on steel and use case). Final deburr on Shapton Pro 12k.

I have learned from straight razors that the "bevel set" is the most important thing that takes the most time to establish and the least time to screw up. So I make sure I have nice clean bevel setup and then I only refine the very apex with other stones. Essentially just the microbevel. Big jumps give a nice hybrid edge. A good balance between keenness and toothiness. Plenty of sharpness to initiate push cuts but also durability that makes board contact survivable.

 

[SwampDonkey]

Have become a big fan of bigger jumps and hybrid edge.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

It is more subtle that I recalled but the Sigma Power Ceramic 8000 does have a fine gritty feel to it. The 10,000 too but a little less as one would expect. This is not an easy stone to find and I don't know that it is worth the trouble.

A stone that I have not used but which possibly might be the kind you seek is the Naniwa Hibiki 8000, currently $72 from Amazon Japan. Some limited comments here but a bit difficult to interpret.

Very hard. Very slow wearing. I've heard that maybe it's actually made with carbon steel tools in mind, which seems sensible enough. I found the feedback superb, considering how hard and fine of a stone it is.

And unless you find the properties of hard vitrified soaking stones particularly attractive, the Shapton Kuro 8k does the whole "hard 8k stone" somewhat similarly for considerably less expense, or so it seems to me.

This member thinks the Shapton Pro (Kuromaku) 5k, 8k, and 12k all feel really rather similar. I know the 5k and 8k are more glassy/slick. Trying to read between the lines and guess what "feedback superb" means I think it has more feel than any of those three Kuromaku stones, in his opinion.

Nah, I feel the 8k Kuro is really rather similar to the 5k (and 12k, for that matter). However, I find more use for such a stone at 8k than 5k.

 

[stringer]

It is more subtle that I recalled but the Sigma Power Ceramic 8000 does have a fine gritty feel to it. The 10,000 too but a little less as one would expect. This is not an easy stone to find and I don't know that it is worth the trouble.

A stone that I have not used but which possibly might be the kind you seek is the Naniwa Hibiki 8000, currently $72 from Amazon Japan. Some limited comments here but a bit difficult to interpret.




This member thinks the Shapton Pro (Kuromaku) 5k, 8k, and 12k all feel really rather similar. I know the 5k and 8k are more glassy/slick. Trying to read between the lines and guess what "feedback superb" means I think it has more feel than any of those three Kuromaku stones, in his opinion.

The only one of those stones I've tried is the SP12k.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Sigma Power stones seem not reliably available these days. My Power Select II stones (240, 1K & 3K) are my most often-used stones, each in their grit range, because of my preferences outlined in my original post, plus they’re so fast. I considered the Power Select II 10K for this application, but thought to try something else.

I also have slices of the Select II 6000, 10000 and 13000. I think the Ceramic 8000 is going to be slightly more of what you want but I'll make a direct comparison with more steels if you are inclined toward any of these, before you commit.

 

[Seemore]

I also have slices of the Select II 6000, 10000 and 13000. I think the Ceramic 8000 is going to be slightly more of what you want but I'll make a direct comparison with more steels if you are inclined toward any of these, before you commit.

Thank you very much - Select 6K is out, I’d be curious if the select 10K has any grip. But where is a Ceramic 8000 available?

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Thank you very much - Select 6K is out, I’d be curious if the select 10K has any grip. But where is a Ceramic 8000 available?

I'll compare the SII 10k and Ceramic 8k and get back to you, but maybe not today. eBay is the only place I can find currently with the 8000. https://www.ebay.com/itm/273861720430

 

[Seemore]

I'll compare the SII 10k and Ceramic 8k and get back to you, but maybe not today. eBay is the only place I can find currently with the 8000. https://www.ebay.com/itm/273861720430

Thanks for the link. You’re very kind, but I’m definitely willing to take my chances - please, no need for you to take more time on this.

 

[jaydee]

I have king 6k and a arashiyama 6k.
Both I find creamy (once there is a bit of slurry) and with good feedback.
Probably even creamier when you soak them but I never tried that.

 

[Rangen]

Thanks. You mean the ceramics (vs resinoids)?

Yes. The resinoids are splash-and-go.

 

[esoo]

To me the Shapton Glass 6K feels exactly like the Glass 3K. I have the Glass 8K but not used it enough to judge yet.

I have a Shapton Pro 12K that I bought to use like a strop to finish blades. It works ok, but I've ended up preferring 1u diamond paste on leather.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Thanks for the link. You’re very kind, but I’m definitely willing to take my chances - please, no need for you to take more time on this.

If you're in the mood to gamble I would go for the Hibiki 8000 at $72 over the Ceramic 8000 at $130.

 

[Seemore]

I have king 6k and a arashiyama 6k.
Both I find creamy (once there is a bit of slurry) and with good feedback.
Probably even creamier when you soak them but I never tried that.

Right - I just sold my Arashiyama 6K after realizing it was too smooth for me.

 

[Seemore]

Thanks, all, for such generous discussions and suggestions on my question. It was a pretty unbelievable level of discourse for so specific a question.
After some more research, I did roll the dice and order the Naniwa Hibiki 8000, which interestingly sells for anywhere from $72 delivered (mine) and sharply upward from there. I’ll probably follow with a WTB post seeking a used Shapton 12K, then choose between them.

 

[Mr.Wizard]

Please post a review of the Hibiki 8000 when you are able. Bear in mind that if as reported it is a relatively hard vitrified stone the surface finish applied will matter so you should try dressing it a few different ways to get the best sense of it.

 

[Seemore]

Please post a review of the Hibiki 8000 when you are able. Bear in mind that if as reported it is a relatively hard vitrified stone the surface finish applied will matter so you should try dressing it a few different ways to get the best sense of it.

I will do.

 

[Hella Bread]

the only stone above 4k grit i still own and enjoy is my kitayama but it rarely gets used with the exception of certain purpose driven knives

edit i lied i forgot i recently got an iwood diamond 6000

 

[aogamisuper991]

Personal reccomendations:
Morihei Hishibori 8k (wicked edge)
Shapton glass 16k (revives edges of a certain bluntness surprisingly)
Naniwa Super 8k (good edge and great for maintaining mirror finish)

Hope this helps