Highlander tells you, "there can be only one!" Which do you choose? šŸ¤”

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

Lightfall

Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2023
Messages
18
Reaction score
3
Location
Minnesota
LOCATION
What country are you in? US, Madison, WI.

KNIFE TYPE
What type of knife are you interested in (e.g., chefs knife, slicer, boning knife, utility knife, bread knife, paring knife, cleaver)? Chefā€™s knife.

Are you right or left handed? Right.

Are you interested in a Western handle (e.g., classic Wusthof handle) or Japanese handle? Either (see comments).

What length of knife (blade) are you interested in (in inches or millimeters)? ~8ā€

Do you require a stainless knife? (Yes or no) Yes (see comments).

What is your absolute maximum budget for your knife? ~$200-400 (not exact, depends if there is an important plateau somewhere)



KNIFE USE
Do you primarily intend to use this knife at home or a professional environment? Home.

What are the main tasks you primarily intend to use the knife for (e.g., slicing vegetables, chopping vegetables, mincing vegetables, slicing meats, cutting down poultry, breaking poultry bones, filleting fish, trimming meats, etc.)? (Please identify as many tasks as you would like.) This will be a general purpose family knife (I have separate utility / paring / sushi knives).

What knife, if any, are you replacing? Cheap wustof & shun santoku (VG-MAX).

Do you have a particular grip that you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for the common types of grips.) No.

What cutting motions do you primarily use? (Please click on this LINK for types of cutting motions and identify the two or three most common cutting motions, in order of most used to least used.) All.

What improvements do you want from your current knife? If you are not replacing a knife, please identify as many characteristics identified below in parentheses that you would like this knife to have.)

Better aesthetics (e.g., a certain type of finish; layered/Damascus or other pattern of steel; different handle color/pattern/shape/wood; better scratch resistance; better stain resistance)? Better aesthetics, not plastic, made in Japan or USA or anywhere but China and their cheap labor subsidiaries.

Comfort (e.g., lighter/heavier knife; better handle material; better handle shape; rounded spine/choil of the knife; improved balance)? Nothing specific.

Ease of Use (e.g., ability to use the knife right out of the box; smoother rock chopping, push cutting, or slicing motion; less wedging; better food release; less reactivity with food; easier to sharpen)? Nothing specific.

Edge Retention (i.e., length of time you want the edge to last without sharpening)? On the longer side realizing stainless will hamper this metric.

KNIFE MAINTENANCE
Do you use a bamboo, wood, rubber, or synthetic cutting board? (Yes or no.) Rubber & HDPP.

Do you sharpen your own knives? (Yes or no.) Yes.

SPECIAL REQUESTS/COMMENTS

Used to have a shun classic santoku 10ā€ which was too large, and by virtue of the lack of care from spouse, it was a chippy situation (Iā€™m working on this part). I am looking for perhaps 2 stages of recommendation;

1: probably a high quality German style knife with a robust edge for when people accidentally contact bones and so forth as a general knife to train on and have on standby for general use. Extended family often come by and abuse my equipment without realizing it.

2: I would also like ā€œthe best all around valueā€ gyuto knife with a reasonably stainless blade to graduate to once family has demonstrated they can take care of a knife, but I do not want them using my $$$$ masamoto knives. When I say ā€œbest all around valueā€ I donā€™t mean cheapest knife that works I mean something that is made by a craftsman of great quality where to go higher in price would have a rapidly declining return on investment. I realize this is a rabbit-hole hobby where the sky is the limit in terms of options, so I am looking for a ā€œif you could have just one gyuto forever and you wanted to target that spot on the ROI curve before it drops off, what would it be?ā€ Same for the german style chef knife.

Recommended vendors for best price and service also welcomed. Your insights are much appreciated, thank you.
 
Yeah I love my ZDP but SG2, hap or even yxr7 might be more versatile because they are a tad tougher. But yeah I don't think I can think of a more consistent, middle of the road, do everything knife for the price.
 
Agreed, the toughness might end up being an issue. I only have the HAP40 k-tip and it is pretty stellar.
 
Interesting suggestions so far, 2 vs 1, curious to see what other thoughts people have.

The sukenari kiritsuke gyuto sure is handsome.

1672726901139.png
 
Good points on metal loss, I guess this calls for a ranked choice top 3 in this scenario.

Any great German / western options or is this dominated by the Japanese?
 
At this price point, it's dominated by Japanese knives.

Lots of Western makers will make you a very nice knife for a few hundred more. As indeed will many Japanese makers.
 
For a nice but not budget breaking stainless all-rounder, I'd pick up a Tanaka ginsan or a Myojin ginsan (Kagekiyo is one, not sure if there are others) or SG2.

A little above your price range, I expect a Shihan AEB-L is exactly what you're after. I have one coming in and am envisioning it exactly the role you're describing - a great knife I'm happy to use but that family can pick up without me cringing.

KKF's own Matt Sicard could probably also work up something in AEB-L for you in budget.
 
For your cheaper #1 beater, a zwilling diplome looks like a great option for $100 on amazon. Its AEBL steel which is one of the toughest stainless but easy to sharpen. It looks to have a good profile and is thin. Nothing german about it. I have not used one.

Save up for something good after that!
 
Last edited:
What is your confidence that the others in your house will have the dedication to advance to a place of using the better knife?

A solid "entry" or "next step" knife is Seki Kanetsugu Pro M. Lasery so you get that step up in performance but will a rather durable steel that's easy to maintain and an overall style that isn't too much of a departure from westerns. Comes in a variety of sizes and maybe the 180mm is better for all involved but here's the 210:

https://bernalcutlery.com/collectio...sugu-pro-m-210mm-gyuto?variant=39677937123480
My wife uses a 150mm and loves it and it is that "next step" knife for her.

If everyone proves they can properly care for this guy, then go fishing for your next step up. Maybe a Takamura or something. But at least at that point you'll have a better gauge. If they don't want to put in the effort (which is okay), then you know the next knife is just for you and maybe that widens your options.
 
The feedback I am getting from my family is that their top concern is not irking me when they make a mistake in the care of the knife.

I think they are earnest in their interest of learning how to use a new tool properly, as they have demonstrated in other contexts, but I think I do need to start them on something robust and probably german.

What is the best german example that fits my needs?

I know, the Japanese knives are kino, some day I will get myself a kick ass one for just me but for now I need something that can take abuse.
 
The feedback I am getting from my family is that their top concern is not irking me when they make a mistake in the care of the knife.

I think they are earnest in their interest of learning how to use a new tool properly, as they have demonstrated in other contexts, but I think I do need to start them on something robust and probably german.

What is the best german example that fits my needs?

I know, the Japanese knives are kino, some day I will get myself a kick ass one for just me but for now I need something that can take abuse.
Get Japanese but just get something like the fujiwara. I agree with the below recommendation. I had a suji from that brand great knives.
The Fujiwara FKM is obviously not German but it's heat treated softer than most Japanese knives (57-58hrc) and can withstand some careless use. Only downside for this use case is that it's pretty short at the heel. Price is right: Fujiwara Kanefusa FKM Series Gyuto (150mm to 300mm, 6 sizes, Black Pakka Wood Handle))
 
Nothing wrong with a German knife. 20cm is a size that most can and will handle. Some brands (donā€™t remember which) offer the same knives with and without fingerguard. I really canā€™t stand the fingerguard but home chefs with no knife affection somehow doā€¦ WĆ¼sthof, Dreizack, Zwilling, Herder, Burgvogel, WMF, have a look around. If Japanese, some knives from MAC could fit the bill, too.
 
Last edited:
To keep things within budget, #1 would be fit well by a Kanehide semi-stainless gyuto. Itā€™s more rust resistant than straight carbon, holds an edge well, isnā€™t a total bear to sharpen, and pretty tough. My chicken-boning knife is the same line, and it holds up nicely to regular, intentional bone contact. Another professional chef in the forum chose these as a go-to for their practicality and performance.
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/kanehide-bessaku-hirakiri-gyuto-240mmCKTG has a version with a nicer handle, I think thatā€™s what the chef I mentioned prefers, but theyā€™re a bit more expensive.
https://www.chefknivestogo.com/katkgy24.html
For #2, something like the Kagekiyo ginsan would feel very special.
https://carbonknifeco.com/products/...mm-walnut-handle?_pos=15&_sid=a4488a32d&_ss=r
Stainless knives will give you longer edge retention than straight carbon (barring some niche steels). The chromium carbides are harder than iron carbides in simple carbon steels. Many carbon steels are simpler to sharpen and deburr, and the finer, softer carbides means they often take a keener edge. There are many shades of grey, but overall donā€™t worry about losing edge retention with stainless, youā€™re actually gaining, on average.
 
For a fancy beater, the kaeru stainless from jns is the one I keep around. Not for lefties but otherwise an excellent knife
 
Back
Top