Highly asymmetrical edges - what do you think?

[GorillaGrunt]

Like you might find on a honesuki, where most of the bevel is on one side. The knives I’ve used like that tend to be from less expensive lines, Carbonext, the Takayuki Blue 2 mono, I see it on Sugimoto and so on. I feel like they can “feel sharper”, but overall are not ground as thin. Also the Misono Dragons and an Aritsugu petty, but those two are super thin stock anyway. I don’t like these types of edges as much for veg prep but might prefer them for protein work, or for detail work where the face of the blade doesn’t go far into the product. Thoughts?

 

[Kristoffer]

Like you might find on a honesuki, where most of the bevel is on one side. The knives I’ve used like that tend to be from less expensive lines, Carbonext, the Takayuki Blue 2 mono, I see it on Sugimoto and so on. I feel like they can “feel sharper”, but overall are not ground as thin. Also the Misono Dragons and an Aritsugu petty, but those two are super thin stock anyway. I don’t like these types of edges as much for veg prep but might prefer them for protein work, or for detail work where the face of the blade doesn’t go far into the product. Thoughts?

I bought a used Masahiro MV-H Gyuto not too long ago that has something like a 90/10 edge. I must admit I quite like it. It does definitely steer somewhat, but not nearly as much as I’d feared. Especially for thin cuts, like slicing cucumber, I find it even helps (with my poor knife skills) keep more of the slices in one nice piece.

 

[Brandon Wicks]

All my knives are super asymmetrical. I mostly use traditional single bevel knives so it is just easier for me to make my gyutos and petty this way too. I don't have any issue with steering but I use Japanese style cutting techniques (push/draw cuts). If I was rocking the blade then it would be an issue.

 

[coffeelover191919]

All my knives are super asymmetrical. I mostly use traditional single bevel knives so it is just easier for me to make my gyutos and petty this way too. I don't have any issue with steering but I use Japanese style cutting techniques (push/draw cuts). If I was rocking the blade then it would be an issue.

Also the Misono Dragons and an Aritsugu petty

sorry to bump this, but i have an Aritsugu Blue 150mm petty that i thought was a single bevel knife. large bevel on one side, feels flat on the other, but today as i was sharpening, the burr wouldn't remove from the "flat" side. You think theres like a 10% bevel on there and that i should've lifted the blade a little bit to remove?

 

[panda]

big fan of asymmetry, i use roughly a 70/30 edge

 

[GorillaGrunt]

@coffeelover191919 that sounds like it might be right, when I find the burr won’t come off one side it’s usually because my angle was wrong and I didn’t hit the apex on a side.

 

[Carl Kotte]

I like asymmetry a lot. I think I thin and sharpen all my knives asymmetrically... the exceptions being my victorinox parers and my dimpled salmon slicer.

 

[Benuser]

@coffeelover191919 that sounds like it might be right, when I find the burr won’t come off one side it’s usually because my angle was wrong and I didn’t hit the apex on a side.

Verify with the marker trick and a loupe whether you've reached the very edge.

 

[Benuser]

The double-bevelled Japanese knives are a further development of the French chef's, the Sabatier. There was already some asymmetry in those, as the right face was more convexed than the left one. Right side convex to help food separation, left face flatter to ease finer slicing. The Japanese makers went a bit further by off-centering the edge to the left. They could do so because ignoring left-handers was hardly seen as a problem, to put it mildly.
I sharpen my vintage Sabs moderately asymmetric as well. They benefit from it, and I'm used to it.

 

[Qapla']

Some of them are good, though I find the Japanese's nearly-absolute insistence on that design (oftentimes while passing it off as "50-50") a bit annoying. I'm sure that among the Japanese customer-base it's entirely expected for a knife of any kind to steer horribly through anything tougher than a block of tofu, and perhaps in their mind the knives were never intended to be used with western techniques for western foods. But if I want to weeb out with an asymmetric-edged steering-machine, I have an usuba and a yanagiba for that.

 

[coffeelover191919]

I got impatient. So what i did was sharpen on the angled side of the knife:

until i felt a burr on the other side:

I tried to remove the burr by doing sharpening/stropping stroked on the flat side (you'll notice the scratches i did above) and the burr won't go away.

Today, as i had a feeling the knife was like 99/1 or 90/10, i raised the knife a bitt on the flat side, and it removed the burr. Knife was shaving sharp.

 

[Benuser]

Some of them are good, though I find the Japanese's nearly-absolute insistence on that design (oftentimes while passing it off as "50-50") a bit annoying. I'm sure that among the Japanese customer-base it's entirely expected for a knife of any kind to steer horribly through anything tougher than a block of tofu, and perhaps in their mind the knives were never intended to be used with western techniques for western foods. But if I want to weeb out with an asymmetric-edged steering-machine, I have an usuba and a yanagiba for that.

No good idea to use it with a firm grip and expect it to behave like a Wüsthof.
Sharpen it accordingly to its asymmetry, i.e. let the right bevel form a continuous arc with the blade's face, and put a straight bevel at a higher angle on the other side, to balance friction. With a loose grip and perhaps a slightly turned wrist it should cut straight. Crazy steering has all to do with poor sharpening.
Don't put a symmetric edge on an asymmetric blade. Just asking for troubles. The edge should follow the blade's geometry.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/

 

[coffeelover191919]

No good idea to use it with a firm grip and expect it to behave like a Wüsthof.
Sharpen it accordingly to its asymmetry, i.e. let the right bevel form a continuous arc with the blade's face, and put a straight bevel at a higher angle on the other side, to balance friction. With a loose grip and perhaps a slightly turned wrist it should cut straight. Crazy steering has all to do with poor sharpening.
Don't put a symmetric edge on an asymmetric blade. Just asking for troubles. The edge should follow the blade's geometry.
https://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/threads/a-basic-explanation-of-asymmetry.33951/

you know what kind of angles are on that aritsugu petty above?

 

[JakeLoveshighCarbon]

I got impatient. So what i did was sharpen on the angled side of the knife:
View attachment 83388
until i felt a burr on the other side:
View attachment 83390

I tried to remove the burr by doing sharpening/stropping stroked on the flat side (you'll notice the scratches i did above) and the burr won't go away.

Today, as i had a feeling the knife was like 99/1 or 90/10, i raised the knife a bitt on the flat side, and it removed the burr. Knife was shaving sharp.

When sharpening chisels for wood working, we set a thin ruler on the edge of our waterstone and use it to give us a 1° angle or so on the flat side at the edge of the blade. I've never sharpened a ursurba so maybe this technique is not recommended for single beveled knives. I will say for chisels though it's the closest thing to magic I've ever encountered.

 

[Benuser]

you know what kind of angles are on that aritsugu petty above?

Normally I would suggest to follow the existing bevels if you're fine with the way it previously worked. Start on the right side at the lowest angle you're comfortable with, raise the spine little by little until the very edge has been reached — verify with a marker and loupe. Repeat the same at the other side.
With an unknown or new blade you have to start somewhere and find out if it works for you. With a petty I would put a rather conservative edge on it: right side convexed, ending at perhaps 12°. Left side, a very narrow straight bevel at some 20°. See if you can live with that. The idea is balancing the friction on both sides by thinning on the right side, and increasing the angle on the left one. It shouldn't steer to much. Once you get used to it, you may thin both sides behind the edge.