Looking at the blue/stainless clad versions of these knives. The Tanaka seems to have more of a devoted following, but what are the real differences between the grinds and cutting performance of these knives?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Hitohira Togashi v. Tanaka -- What are the differences?
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Having owned both at the same time, there are notably differences in the shape and overall design of the knife between Togashi and the various iterations of Y Tanaka that Hitohira sells. If you aren't already aware, Togashi (the family) does both the smith/forging as well as the final grind. On the other hand, Tanaka only makes the blades but they are ground by other individuals as part of the Hitohira line (Kyuzo, Yohei, etc.)
All said and done, all are excellent cutting knives and imo, you can't go wrong with any of them unless they don't meet your personal preferences.
All said and done, all are excellent cutting knives and imo, you can't go wrong with any of them unless they don't meet your personal preferences.
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Togashi blade shape seems to be less popular. TBH I’ve been close to buying one a few times and I’ve tested a Honyaki before but that profile just isn’t for me.
L-->R:
Yoshikane SKD 240mm
Togashi 240mm SS clad
Tanaka Kyuzo 240mm SS
Migoto Shinogi 240mm
Edit: Yes, I know I store my knives tip down. I live alone so unless there is an earthquake, they aren't going anywhere and the handle prevents slippage over time.
Yoshikane SKD 240mm
Togashi 240mm SS clad
Tanaka Kyuzo 240mm SS
Migoto Shinogi 240mm
Edit: Yes, I know I store my knives tip down. I live alone so unless there is an earthquake, they aren't going anywhere and the handle prevents slippage over time.
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Tanaka Yohei is the damascus one.Togashi is the one alone. The three below are Tanaka Kyuzo in a few iterations.
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I'm sorry, my eyes are very new to all this and can't see too much of a difference. Could anyone translate it into words if possible please? Feels like the Tanaka's tip is lower and thinner? But i'm not sure. And more curve at the tip for Togashi?
There are Togashi x Tosa blades of course but am not sure if they still work together.
I probably should not even comment but from pictures alone i have to say that both Togashi and Tanaka do not always have the same profile. Hitohira Togashi is different to Togashis from AOKI. Same for Tanaka.
Tanaka from #5 looks flatter than the Tanakas i usually see. I would dare say they are more "unusual" than Togashis which have a longer "flat" section. But yeah, Both of these have their tip up higher than most.
I probably should not even comment but from pictures alone i have to say that both Togashi and Tanaka do not always have the same profile. Hitohira Togashi is different to Togashis from AOKI. Same for Tanaka.
Tanaka from #5 looks flatter than the Tanakas i usually see. I would dare say they are more "unusual" than Togashis which have a longer "flat" section. But yeah, Both of these have their tip up higher than most.
Several things.
The thing about Sakai knives is every (almost) knife has two makers arguably just as important-
The forger- who harmmered the steel into the knife and treated the steel to its heat treatment
The sharpener- who finishes and polished the knife- and most importantly puts on the grind.
So as forgers go, I have a bunch of Tanaka and have had two Togashi. Tanaka’s heat treatment of Blue Paper #1 (Aogami 1) steel is arguably the best common stee treatment in the world. He’s famous for it. Takes an incredible edge and holds it a long time
Togashi is famous for his White #1 steel treatment. It takes an edge so well, I’d wager it’s my sharpest knife. Because it’s white steel, it doesn’t hold its edge as well as blue, but it’s easier to sharpen. Not only that it responds to honing and stropping so well the edge is Highly recoverable without sharpening.
Now the reason you can’t ask what’s the difference between Togashi and Tanaka is because the sharpener makes a huge difference- Hitohira has many different ones and they add arguably as much variance as the smith.
For example a Tanaka/Yohei and a Togashi/Yohei are probably more similar to a Tanaka/Kyuzo and a Tanaka/Yohei
.
Anyone who knows me on these forums knows I’ll always say go with Yohei. Yohei is his “Hitohira Samurai” name but his real name is Mitsuaki Takada. He’s the founder/sharpener of Takada no Hamono. He does Laser style grinds but they have incredible release and puts a great finish on them.
Kikuchiyo and Kyuzo are also super popular, and a majority of Togashi are sharpened by his son (why a lot of Togashi don’t have sharpener listed)
TLDR you asked a loaded question, and it is very dependent on Steel Type and Sharpener as much as it is who forged the knife
Hope that helps,
Southpaw
The thing about Sakai knives is every (almost) knife has two makers arguably just as important-
The forger- who harmmered the steel into the knife and treated the steel to its heat treatment
The sharpener- who finishes and polished the knife- and most importantly puts on the grind.
So as forgers go, I have a bunch of Tanaka and have had two Togashi. Tanaka’s heat treatment of Blue Paper #1 (Aogami 1) steel is arguably the best common stee treatment in the world. He’s famous for it. Takes an incredible edge and holds it a long time
Togashi is famous for his White #1 steel treatment. It takes an edge so well, I’d wager it’s my sharpest knife. Because it’s white steel, it doesn’t hold its edge as well as blue, but it’s easier to sharpen. Not only that it responds to honing and stropping so well the edge is Highly recoverable without sharpening.
Now the reason you can’t ask what’s the difference between Togashi and Tanaka is because the sharpener makes a huge difference- Hitohira has many different ones and they add arguably as much variance as the smith.
For example a Tanaka/Yohei and a Togashi/Yohei are probably more similar to a Tanaka/Kyuzo and a Tanaka/Yohei
.Anyone who knows me on these forums knows I’ll always say go with Yohei. Yohei is his “Hitohira Samurai” name but his real name is Mitsuaki Takada. He’s the founder/sharpener of Takada no Hamono. He does Laser style grinds but they have incredible release and puts a great finish on them.
Kikuchiyo and Kyuzo are also super popular, and a majority of Togashi are sharpened by his son (why a lot of Togashi don’t have sharpener listed)
TLDR you asked a loaded question, and it is very dependent on Steel Type and Sharpener as much as it is who forged the knife
Hope that helps,
Southpaw
Southpaw's answer is an excellent one. I also agree with his assessment of Togashi white and Tanaka Blue, those are my preferred steels from each for the same reasons.
Being at it: Anybody tried Togashis blue2?
OkayMode
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The kasumi finish on the Togashi is so nice, but imo the Migoto is the nicest on that lineup - do let me know if you ever plan on letting it go
The kasumi finish on the Togashi is so nice, but imo the Migoto is the nicest on that lineup - do let me know if you ever plan on letting it go
That's one I plan on keeping, but I'll add you to the list on that one. I keep track of who mentions interest in knives I have
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OkayMode
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Haha brilliant, thank you.
I should probably post more of my stash so I can do the same.
I have a custom honyaki being made in blue 2 by Takada no Hamono. I’m pretty eager to see how it is
shobudonnie
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Togashi’s knives are mostly sharpened by his son Kenya togashi. And these knives have belly. Which makes them better for rock chopping. I have one that is ground by hirotsugu tosa, and it is a completely different knife from the ones grinded by his son.
Kenji togashi, yoshikazu tanaka, satoshi nakagawa, and yoshikazu ikeda all have great heat treatments. I wouldn’t say any one of them is superior to another.
But if we’re talking about TF Denka, that’s a different story…
Kenji togashi, yoshikazu tanaka, satoshi nakagawa, and yoshikazu ikeda all have great heat treatments. I wouldn’t say any one of them is superior to another.
But if we’re talking about TF Denka, that’s a different story…
Have an order in place. Still waitingg
shobudonnie
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Yes. It’s pretty good. I would say that it is equal to Toyama’s heat treat of blue 2
The retailer told me that Togashi rarely does blue steel but he's equally as good. Mine will be tosa sharpened through takayuki
Doi, Togashi, Nakagawa. out of all 3, which makes the best Blue 2? I know Tanaka Blue 2 and White 2 are pretty sucks for Sakai Standard.
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I've never seen any Tanaka blue 2, besides possibly the fujiyamas which should be all tanaka, have you? Just did a small search and couldn't find much. Every tanaka+blue 2 leads to Shigeki Tanaka. Wondering if he really even made those for Konosuke. I don't like his white 2 but not sure why his blue 2 would be bad. I know doi is very famous for blue 2.
I heard someone used Blue 2 Kaiju and the edge retention is just as not as on point as other blacksmiths.
I haven't really seen his Blue 2 other than Fujiyama and even Takada prefers Nakagawa over Tanaka for Blue 2.
They even prefer something better than Tanaka I guess.
shobudonnie
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With Sakai makers, white #1 is GENERALLY good. Blue #1 is GENERALLY great. White #2 is GENERALLY okay. Blue #2 is GENERALLY meh. But if you were given any single knife made by any of the top craftsmen of Sakai, you will not be able to tell what the steel is, or who made it. They are still much better than most of the other stuff out there.
For me, TF’s denka steel is the only one that straight up surpasses them. And at the cost of brittleness.
For me, TF’s denka steel is the only one that straight up surpasses them. And at the cost of brittleness.
Kono MM Blue 2 is pretty darn good in what I've touched. My impression so far is it is as good if not better than the Tanaka Blue 1 I have. As Ms Mori was at Shiraki Hamono, I'd expect Nakagawa to be the same.
For carbon steel, my blue 2 Fujiyama FM is quite good. My white 2 Kikuzuki Kasumi doesn’t have the best retention especially when acidic ingredients are involved but a few swipes on a hard aoto or BBW and it is screaming sharp once again. Both forged by Tanaka.
I’m a Tanaka fanboi and yes that FM Blue 2 is a great steel! I did not sharpen mine (210 mm) for a year and used it around the whole year switching to my other home rotation knives. Held edge amazingly by surprise!
Konosuke MM 240 Blue 2 is on my list too!
Konosuke MM 240 Blue 2 is on my list too!
I believe the second one is a Tetsujin, not Togashi.
I can’t chime in on Tanaka’s as I’ve not been lucky enough to purchase his SS clad from Hitohira. I can comment on Togashi B1 240 mm SS Clad from Hitohira.
Is a wife bevel so it sticks a bit, grind is a bit more concave but is real thin BTE, sharpens amazingly well on Suehiro 1k/6k combo And finish off on leather strop. I’ve yet to achieve hair popping sharp (my skills) but when every I need to be wowed at cutting performance this is the knife I always reach.
Being THIN BTE makes me feel like I’m holding a lightsaber, 10/10 would buy it in a heartbeat again.
Is a wife bevel so it sticks a bit, grind is a bit more concave but is real thin BTE, sharpens amazingly well on Suehiro 1k/6k combo And finish off on leather strop. I’ve yet to achieve hair popping sharp (my skills) but when every I need to be wowed at cutting performance this is the knife I always reach.
Being THIN BTE makes me feel like I’m holding a lightsaber, 10/10 would buy it in a heartbeat again.
