Honing / Sharpening on ceramic wheel and ceramic honing blade

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discomute

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Hello, a few years ago I got this knife set as a wedding gift

Global 3 Piece Knife Set

For a few years I've been using a cheap $5 sharpener on them when they needed it, perhaps once every 3 months.

I was never really happened with the results and I googled a youtube video

So I went out and purchased a this honing blade and this knife sharpener

Since getting them a few days ago I've become concerned that I should have done more research. They are both labelled "ceramic sharpeners" and they both run ceramics along the blade at specific angle... aren't they doing the same thing?

I am not in a situation where I would really want to spend a lot of money, what I just purchased stretched the budget. Perhaps in a few years I might be interested in something like an electric sharpener. And I'm not into knives enough to learn a wetstone. I just want an easy way to maintain my set.

But for now I am curious as the best way forward -
a) do these two items perform different functions, is the honing blade an actual honing blade and is the knife sharpener an actual knife sharpener? And therefore should I hone each cook (ideally) / once a week (minimum) and sharpen every 3-12 months as needed?
b) are these performing the same task, if so are the both honing or sharpening? What would be the recommended course of action, keeping in mind I am budget concious?

Thanks in advance.
 
The honing rod is meant to keep the knife sharp once it is already sharp. You use the rod periodically, as you find that the edge is dulling just a little. That brings the edge back to properly sharp.

Eventually, you won't be able to keep the edge sharp with just the rod, at which point you need to reset the bevel and do a proper sharpening.

I don't know how well/poorly that ceramic disk sharpener will work. (These sharpeners don't have the best of reputations.) You'll have to try and see. One bit of advice: do not use strong downward pressure, otherwise you are likely to tear chunks of metal out of the edge. Smooth pulling motions with very light pressure are the way to go.

I'd be cautious with the coarser disk; you may find that it removes a lot of metal, causing your knives to "shrink" fairly quickly. If you use the honing rod to keep the edge in good shape, there is every chance that you won't need to use the coarse disk at all and can restore the edge with the fine disk.
 
Michi said:
The honing rod is meant to keep the knife sharp once it is already sharp. You use the rod periodically, as you find that the edge is dulling just a little. That brings the edge back to properly sharp.

Eventually, you won't be able to keep the edge sharp with just the rod, at which point you need to reset the bevel and do a proper sharpening.

I don't know how well/poorly that ceramic disk sharpener will work. (These sharpeners don't have the best of reputations.) You'll have to try and see. One bit of advice: do not use strong downward pressure, otherwise you are likely to tear chunks of metal out of the edge. Smooth pulling motions with very light pressure are the way to go.

I'd be cautious with the coarser disk; you may find that it removes a lot of metal, causing your knives to "shrink" fairly quickly. If you use the honing rod to keep the edge in good shape, there is every chance that you won't need to use the coarse disk at all and can restore the edge with the fine disk.
Click to expand...

Okay thank you - but in essence you are confirming that these are indeed the products that I thought they are? The rod is for regular use and the ceramic disk sharpener is supposed to sharpen.
 
you use the rod every day or every week. and then after a while when it wont do anything anymore, then you resharpen it with something else.
both things sharpen the knife.

or you could skip those products and just get a stone. the stone will be about 100x faster and it will be better.
 
You sharpening nuts do but I‘ve been in kitchens for 12 years.. and I now believe that rods are generally more harmful than your hard cutting board or what you are cutting.

Last week we watched two knives. Both have been sharpened on stones the same day, about two weeks before, and with the same finish on the edge. We cut about the same amount of food. Or he may cut slightly more but I sometimes cut on metal surface and he never does ;)

My colleague‘s knife has been „refeshed“ with a rod from times to times and the geometry went weird and the edge dull after the two weeks of use. The ill knife needed a kind of „repair“ on stones.
Mine has been used but not refreshed in any way. It was still ok-sharp and the geometry remained perfect. After 15 seconds on stones, it went healthy sharp again.

So, a rod isn‘t something I would strongly advise. And like Inferno said, you‘re going to send it to a sharpener or sharpen it on a stone anyway so, not spending money on a stone isn‘t going to make you spare money over a long time.
And it‘s a detail but your knives won‘t stay sharp a very long time so your expensive Global blade is going to perform like on a $10 knife very soon... and even worse once you‘ll have the electric sharpener.
 
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inferno said:
you use the rod every day or every week. and then after a while when it wont do anything anymore, then you resharpen it with something else.
both things sharpen the knife.

or you could skip those products and just get a stone. the stone will be about 100x faster and it will be better.
Click to expand...

Okay so I'm a bit confused on this front - does the stone replace both, and if so, what frequency do you use it at?

My understanding now I've googled a bit, is the stone sharpens it (and the rod maintains) so you'd still use the rod every day or every week. And the stone once in a while (say 3-12 months) Am I wrong?

Edit - I should also point out I'm not fussed if the easier method wears my knife out faster. If I get 10-20 years out of it instead of a life time for the price of running a blade through something, that's a good trade off to me
 
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you use the stone when you feel the knife is not as sharp as you would like anymore.

for globals this might be every week, or every month, and in a pro kitchen (8h a day use) every day. or 2 times a day.

it really depends on how sharp you want to keep the knife. and what you consider dull. there are no rules.

i guess for most home users with hard steel they probably resharpen every week or every month. and some steels can go a lot longer. but then we're talking very hard powder steels.

 
discomute said:
Edit - I should also point out I'm not fussed if the easier method wears my knife out faster. If I get 10-20 years out of it instead of a life time for the price of running a blade through something, that's a good trade off to me
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10-20 years of useful sharpness using a rod only would be a kind of miracle. Maybe 6 months if you use the rod very wisely.
 
Agree.

Okay. First and foremost, about the stuff you already got.
Sharpening rods (makes no difference what's the name) can prove a curse for knives. They are so tricky to use right. I'm not saying impossible, but...
The other tool I would just not touch with any thin blade ever.
So, what's your option now? Return, if possible.

And maybe try one of these https://www.amazon.com/Work-Sharp-Benchtop-Angle-Sharpener/dp/B07XJRCZB9
Disregard what Gary says there. Nothings is actually a problem whatsoever as described.
There are others, but this is pretty cheap for what's available. I can't think of anything similar to what you looked for and might use with less effort.
 
Just to clarify a few points:
- I'm not learning to use a whetstone, at least not in the next 18-30 months, for reasons too long to type
- any tutorial of a whetstone makes it self evident it is not "faster" than any other method
- My research led me to believe that the reason you all hate the pull through sharpener so much is because it wears down the knife faster. I wasn't saying I might get 10-20 years of useful sharpness from only a rod, I was saying that if you all hate the pull through sharpener because it will "damage" my knife then I'm not worried about it
- whilst I really appreciate everyone taking the time to comment, a lot of what I'm being told seems to conflict with what is easily google-able from various other sources, such as using a rod combined with another method (be it a whetstone or a pull through). Everywhere seems to think so. So I'm getting more and more confused. I'm sure it's an understanding issue on my end.

The exception to this is michi, whose first reply seemed to confirm what I was asking. At this point I don't think a return is likely so I'll just use it for a bit and if it doesn't work I guess it is a lesson learnt and I'll look to another method. Probably end up back here asking how to use a whetstone. :)

Thanks again
 
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discomute said:
it doesn't work I guess it is a lesson learnt and I'll look to another method

Thanks again
Click to expand...

I guess we didn't reply your specific questions because, that's right, you can google the answers very quick.
Using abrasive in order to shape metal is something many of us have been experiencing over years and even decades.
We are just trying to share our experiences in order to help you keeping your blades sharp in a healthy way (what your tools can't do). Once the blades are worn out you'll need to repair/reshape them or they won't cut anymore. And the tools you have won't do the job.
 
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nutmeg said:
I guess we didn't reply your specific questions because, that's right, you can google the answers very quick.
Using abrasive in order to shape metal is something many of us have been experiencing over years and even decades.
We are just trying to share our experiences in order to help you keeping your blades sharp in a healthy way (what your tools can't do). Once the blades are worn out you'll need to repair/reshape them or they won't cut anymore. And the tools you have won't do the job.
Click to expand...

Thanks. Part of it is my fault for trying to summarize my OP to a reasonable length. I left a lot of parts out that I didn't think were relevant but might have been. E.g. reasons for not using a whetstone right now and the fact I've used my pull through before my wife "accidentally" chucked it and thought it was alright.

My main concern was the pull through i got was just a redesigned honing blade, as all pull through I've seen were metal, and it seemed to be the same stuff as my rod. But I'm at ease I've got what I need and now need to test if it works or not. So thanks.
 
I'd say, try to become talented with the rod. Actually this is like a stone with less stability, surface and versatility. And avoid the small "wheel"-knife sharpener the most you can. ;)
 
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If you're a home user, just strop it back to life on a stone. No need for ceramic honing rod or sharpening gadget
 
discomute said:
Just to clarify a few points:
- I'm not learning to use a whetstone, at least not in the next 18-30 months, for reasons too long to type
- any tutorial of a whetstone makes it self evident it is not "faster" than any other method
- My research led me to believe that the reason you all hate the pull through sharpener so much is because it wears down the knife faster. I wasn't saying I might get 10-20 years of useful sharpness from only a rod, I was saying that if you all hate the pull through sharpener because it will "damage" my knife then I'm not worried about it
- whilst I really appreciate everyone taking the time to comment, a lot of what I'm being told seems to conflict with what is easily google-able from various other sources, such as using a rod combined with another method (be it a whetstone or a pull through). Everywhere seems to think so. So I'm getting more and more confused. I'm sure it's an understanding issue on my end.

The exception to this is michi, whose first reply seemed to confirm what I was asking. At this point I don't think a return is likely so I'll just use it for a bit and if it doesn't work I guess it is a lesson learnt and I'll look to another method. Probably end up back here asking how to use a whetstone. :)

Thanks again
Click to expand...

There is this thing called "something is better than nothing". That's pretty much the sum of many advices you found.

In a professional environment, the life of a blade is around two weeks of daily honing with a rod. Now, it's true that there are various types of rods and ceramics are often quoted as non distructive, but that's so generic, it's borderline myth. A mid grit ceramic rod or even finer is way more aggressive than a similar stone in regular size. It's all down to contact area and pressure. Keeping it short, less contact area, more distructive. And those weeks are for softer alloys. Doing the same with very hard thin blades might even ruin a knife in one go. I've seen it so many times.
This brings me to the wheel thingy. That thing "sharpens" by having the structure destroyed. Look at it like a very barbarian way of dealing with the problem. If the edge is thin enough, chipping will be a problem with potential of big pieces just flying around.
But even if it's not that thin, it will change the geometry. Does this matter? For us here, it does. Cutting is way more about geometry than the edge itself. For some "advice people", geometry is a myth.

As you might imagine, we gain nothing if you use one thing or another. It's up to you to decide, now that the information is complete. I'm not going to further comment about other sources. I had my fair share of crappy information, being repeated again and again, when I started this.
 
Is there a FAQ or something that this forum (or any place) has that you recommend and would get me a jump start on learning what I need to know?

(Yes I could Google but if certain information is less than accurate I wouldn't know.)
 
discomute said:
Just to clarify a few points:
- I'm not learning to use a whetstone, at least not in the next 18-30 months, for reasons too long to type
- any tutorial of a whetstone makes it self evident it is not "faster" than any other method
- My research led me to believe that the reason you all hate the pull through sharpener so much is because it wears down the knife faster. I wasn't saying I might get 10-20 years of useful sharpness from only a rod, I was saying that if you all hate the pull through sharpener because it will "damage" my knife then I'm not worried about it
- whilst I really appreciate everyone taking the time to comment, a lot of what I'm being told seems to conflict with what is easily google-able from various other sources, such as using a rod combined with another method (be it a whetstone or a pull through). Everywhere seems to think so. So I'm getting more and more confused. I'm sure it's an understanding issue on my end.

The exception to this is michi, whose first reply seemed to confirm what I was asking. At this point I don't think a return is likely so I'll just use it for a bit and if it doesn't work I guess it is a lesson learnt and I'll look to another method. Probably end up back here asking how to use a whetstone. :)

Thanks again
Click to expand...

enjoy your dull knives, lol
 
Globals have a reputation for being a pain in the butt to sharpen on stones anyway so maybe the roller gizmo is the way to go if you're not interested in learning how to use a whetstone. Ceramic honing rods can be effective for touchups if you use them right. Just take it easy with the pressure and focus on keeping the same angle throughout the stroke. Below is a vid of how I would use one.

Sorry we can't be more helpful. It's probably been years since anyone active on this board has used a pull thru sharpener. You can spend less and get far superior results with stones so that's the advice you'll get on this board. If you're not happy with the results and decide you want to try sharpening the old fashion way, the folks on this board can provide better guidance.

 
Unstoppabo said:
Globals have a reputation for being a pain in the butt to sharpen on stones anyway so maybe the roller gizmo is the way to go if you're not interested in learning how to use a whetstone. Ceramic honing rods can be effective for touchups if you use them right. Just take it easy with the pressure and focus on keeping the same angle throughout the stroke. Below is a vid of how I would use one.

Sorry we can't be more helpful. It's probably been years since anyone active on this board has used a pull thru sharpener. You can spend less and get far superior results with stones so that's the advice you'll get on this board. If you're not happy with the results and decide you want to try sharpening the old fashion way, the folks on this board can provide better guidance.

Click to expand...


Yep look I understand now this forum is for people wanting to get their knives as sharp as possible, rather than perhaps 'fit for purpose' if the purpose is chopping some veggies. The wheel and rod certainly get them sharper than before.

My personality is such that I think I'd quite like to buy and learn whetstones though it just isn't the right time for me. In a year or two I'll probably be back and ready, for now I'm going to stick with what I've got.

Thanks again for everyone who helped out.
 
Get some stones and watch a few videos and you can get some good edges in short order. It’s not rocket science
 
discomute said:
Yep look I understand now this forum is for people wanting to get their knives as sharp as possible, rather than perhaps 'fit for purpose' if the purpose is chopping some veggies. The wheel and rod certainly get them sharper than before.

My personality is such that I think I'd quite like to buy and learn whetstones though it just isn't the right time for me. In a year or two I'll probably be back and ready, for now I'm going to stick with what I've got.

Thanks again for everyone who helped out.
Click to expand...
Tbh, in the timespan of this thread and Googling you could have learned to use a stone already. Making a pretty, perfect edge takes practice but getting something sharper than before is only a matter of having it in your hands.

And sharpness does effect your food much beyond hobby.
 
I dont know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but I think the lansky sharpening system would be perfect for you. It's cheap, has multiple grits, is self explanatory pretty much, and is the next best thing to hand sharpening pretty much.
 
I actually used that exact pull through sharpener. It works, though the knives are really punished. It will imo cause the same issue as the rod, the heel is extremely hard to sharpen and sooner rather than later, it will create a high spot.

I use a ceramic rod when I do not have time for the stones. It reintroduces the "useful stage" edge from "useless stage" but it is quickly gone again, maybe 2-3 sessions as a home cook.

Another issue with the pull-through: it does not thin the knife. Mine was very thick behind the edge. It feels like another knife after I thinned it a bit.

The easiest way I've found to sharpen is actually from an old video of @Kippington



I used a freaking #80 grit sandpaper for thining and first edge. Its not pretty but worked. Took it 800 Naniwa after, but a higher grit sandpaper would be fine.
 
I've got a Tojiro ceramic wheel pull-through sharpener similar to what OP posted last month. Here: Tojiro-Pro 18-8 Stainless Steel Ceramic Sharpener F-641
I regret buying it. It rarely improved my edge and often disappointed. I questioned whether the ceramic wheels, when rotated by the knife being pulled by them, would not actually do any honing/sharpening if they moved at the same speed as the knife. Maybe I am missing something but the ceramic wheels moving at the same speed as the edge being passed through them doesn't do *anything* to improve the edge, in my mind.
 
Dhoff said:
The easiest way I've found to sharpen is actually from an old video of @Kippington



I used a freaking #80 grit sandpaper for thining and first edge. Its not pretty but worked. Took it 800 Naniwa after, but a higher grit sandpaper would be fine.
Click to expand...

The crucial stage here is the leather stropping charged with a metal polish. That allows to remove the huge burr raised by the sandpaper stropping.
With finely grained steels, a burr falling off may leave a decent edge. Not so with coarser ones, where what is left looks like lunar landscape, supposing you're able to get rid of the burr at all.
Haven't tried the mouse pad method with Globals myself, but I'm sceptical about it, to put it mildly. From what I've experienced with stone sharpening them, I know how the large, clustering carbides and some plasticity in it, are causing troubles with both raising a burr and getting rid of it. Ten minutes after you think you got it removed it pops up in another place. They are the only soft stainless I know where microchips are perfectly common — due to carbides breaking out. Learning sharpening with Globals is an exercise in frustration. Send them out and have them reshaped and sharpened with powered tools.
From there on they can be maintained to some extend with very light use of a fine ceramic rod like the Sieger LongLife or a 2k stone provided you know how to deburr along the edge.
If I insist on good deburring and the difficulty the Globals represent in achieving it, it has not only to do with the quality of the edge you obtain. It will determine the edge retention as well. Poor edge retention often is due to incomplete deburring.
 
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