Hot Sauces

[bermuda_chub]

Does anyone have any experience with fermentation in a vacuum bag? How long should I leave to ferment? Any other other tips?

This is my first go. 2.5% salt, some habaneros, fresnos, carrot, and garlic.
View attachment 361537

I’ve only fermented in jars, but this is advice from a family friend who has been making hot sauce for many years:

“You can use either fresh or dried peppers. Slice open fresh peppers the long way or break dried peppers in half. Wear gloves. Cover with 2% brine and let ferment for two weeks. Smooth it with an immersion blender and press through a fine mesh metal seive. You can bottle it now, and it will continue to improve for a month.
This works well with tabasco, piri piri and chiltepin peppers. Jalapeño and habanero peppers tend to separate. You can fix that by adding a few drops of pectinase before fermenting.
Another problem is kahm yeast. This mold often forms a white wrinkly film on the surface of the ferment. It can add interesting flavors, but it is better to avoid it. If you get black mold, it is ruined.
So to avoid mold, before fermenting, put the peppers plus brine plus pectinase into a ziplock plastic bag and hard freeze it overnight. Set the freezer to a very low temperature. Take the frozen peppers and vacuum seal them in a very large plastic bag. The the bag must be quite oversized, because the ferment generates a lot of carbon dioxide. You need to freeze this first because any liquid can ruin the vacuum sealer (I did this). The advantage of this is that all oxygen is eliminated, so no mold can grow.
Let it ferment two weeks in the bag, but you need to thicken it a little to suppress mold in the bottle. Add xanthan gum, one part in 2000. Then immersion blend, strain and bottle.”

 

[Michi]

Does anyone have any experience with fermentation in a vacuum bag? How long should I leave to ferment? Any other other tips?

I’m doubtful that this will work. Lactic acid producing bacteria are aerobic; once they have used the oxygen in the bag, I expect they simply would die, or at least go dormant?

 

[sansho]

I’m doubtful that this will work. Lactic acid producing bacteria are aerobic; once they have used the oxygen in the bag, I expect they simply would die, or at least go dormant?

nah, they're anaerobes

think about it. when you pickle stuff, you want to keep everything submerged under the brine to prevent aerobic competition. that's why people use pickling weights and other tricks.

anyway, i've seen the bag fermentation thing before. seems to work.

 

[Michi]

nah, they're anaerobes

Me bad, brain fart

 

[PaoloR]

I start tasting & then re-seal after about 6 days at 2% salt by weight. When you see the bag puff up, that’s a good sign to start checking.

 

[wasacook]

Does anyone have any experience with fermentation in a vacuum bag? How long should I leave to ferment? Any other other tips?

This is my first go. 2.5% salt, some habaneros, fresnos, carrot, and garlic.
View attachment 361537

I have experience as I have done this at multiple jobs before.

Don't touch the bag for the first week just let it sit in a dark space. For the next two weeks flip the bag once a day. After three weeks you should be good to start blending the fermented contents. You can go for longer, I have gone for several months before with one batch. The important thing is to burp the bag if it looks like its going to explode and to make sure that you are sanitary when you do such.

Some variations to consider for next time would be further crushing your garlic, scorching your peppers, pre roasting your carrots, using an infused salt, and varying the temp you store your bag at. Hopefully this was of some help, Cheers!

 

[sansho]

going to explode

wow, you reminded me of something. this happened to my friend once. insane fuϲking mess. he sent me pics, and i felt real bad for him. he's got a good impulse sealer, and he used a decently big bag, so it was able to charge up to fairly high pressure with high total mass of CO2. good explosive force, lol.

if you have concerns about that at all, it's probably smart to put it in a decent sized cardboard box with the flaps folded shut – overlapping so it stays shut without tape, know what i mean?

 

[Michi]

if you have concerns about that at all, it's probably smart to put it in a decent sized cardboard box with the flaps folded shut – overlapping so it stays shut without tape, know what i mean?

I have not tried this, but I’m fairly sure it would work. Cut off one corner of the bag after sealing the bag and then use one of these bag clips to keep it shut.

The clip does form an airtight seal, but it would let excess gas escape long before the bag gives way.

 

[sansho]

the only problem i see with that is it may be hard to vac seal it. i suppose you could vac seal it first, slide the thing over, and then cut off an impulse-sealed corner, however.

 

[Michi]

the only problem i see with that is it may be hard to vac seal it. i suppose you could vac seal it first, slide the thing over, and then cut off an impulse-sealed corner, however.

Yes, that would work. Even without sealing first, this method would still work, I think. It definitely would stop the bag from exploding.

 

[sansho]

it's just that you really want to vac seal it to start with an anaerobic env to prevent contam. it's probably important with the bag technique because you're not even submerging the product in brine. that's all i meant.

also, i have like a million of those sealer stick things in a bunch of sizes. they're great. cheapest place i've found is aliexpress.

 

[JASinIL2006]

When I ferment in a vac-bag and the bag fills with gas, I just use a pin to put a small hole in the bag and squeeze the bag until most of the gas is expelled. Then I quickly put a piece of duct tape over the hole. Has never failed me and it's much easier than trying to reseal with the vacuum sealer.

 

[Transmaster]

Have you thought about using a fermentation crock? They come in numerous sizes, They are designed to do Sauerkraut, Kimchee, natural crock pickles, plus all of the stuff pickled, and fermented in Russian Cuisine. It should be a natural for salsa's and hot sauces. The white ceramic half rounds you see weight down the contents so it stays in the liquid and none is exposed to the air. It naturally vents fermentation gases and the temperature is moderated by the heavy ceramics so you have predictable and repeatable fermentation times, plus the opaque ceramic blocks all external light and damaging ultraviolet. These crocks are cheap and infinitely reusable, the glazing does not absorb tastes, odors and is non-reactive. When you are fermenting something with this version you keep the grove the lid rests in full of water. This seals the interior and you can also see bubbles from vented gases. Seeing that first bubble when you are making sauerkraut or kimchee is exciting you know wonderful things are happening inside.

This is the 2L size.

 

[boomchakabowwow]

the hot sauce I always own is Tabasco. the rest rotate in and out, but I 100% have a bottle of Tabasco in my home.

why? it surely isn't the best, most unique hot sauce. not by a mile. but I try to dash a bit of vinegar in most of my dishes, and Tobasco gets it done, and adds a touch of heat. win win. brightens up the dish for sure.

 

[MrHiggins]

I start tasting & then re-seal after about 6 days at 2% salt by weight. When you see the bag puff up, that’s a good sign to start checking.

My vacuum bag fermentation is 3 days old, but so far there's no puff. Is this a sign something's wrong, or do I just need more patience?

 

[Michi]

My vacuum bag fermentation is 3 days old, but so far there's no puff. Is this a sign something's wrong, or do I just need more patience?

I’d give it time. It’ll kick off eventually.

 

[JASinIL2006]

I agree. I’ve had some that took a week or two to start puffing up.

 

[MrHiggins]

I agree. I’ve had some that took a week or two to start puffing up.

Thanks! Didn't know what to expect when it came to timing. I'll be watching over the next week or so for some activity.

 

[Beerzebub]

I just re-upped on a good local one, I'm not sure what kind of chiles it uses but they're slow roasted in a wood-fired oven for three days.

 

[wasacook]

 

[wasacook]

Lacto-fermented some extra chilies from work at 3% salt by weight in a vac bag. After a few weeks they were ready to go. I blended them well including the liquid they produce. After several minutes I have a decent puree. Running the puree threw my centrifuge left me with a clear liquid and byproduct chili paste. I decided to reduce the liquid by half on the stove top to get a Cholula hot sauce like consistency. I enjoyed the resulting sauce as its only two ingredients and has a very pure flavor.

A few things I considered:

• adding vinegar for extra bite
• using xanthan gum to thicken
• reducing by half using a dehydrator to preserve aromatic notes
• increasing the spin time from 10min to 15min for a more clear result
• using pectinx for a higher liquid yield
• using a rotovap from work to reduce

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

I didn't even know food centrifuges existed until now, and now I want one.

Also, what is up with the notch in that spoon?

 

[wasacook]

I didn't even know food centrifuges existed until now, and now I want one.

Also, what is up with the notch in that spoon?

It is a saucier spoon that I got from an old job. The notch has some special use that I cant remember. I do know the shape reminds me of a mathematics cardioid and the notch makes it sit perfectly on the edge of plates or bowls.

Fun fact, I bought the centrifuge within less than a month of buying my very first can opener. I also don't own any butter knives or forks, only work spoons.

 

[HolyDiverScallop]

I just found this:

"A sauce spoon, or saucier spoon, is a delicate spoon that, to a common observer, may look just like a regular dessert spoon. Do not be deceived. As per Bauscher Hepp, a sauce spoon has a slightly flat basin and a distinctive notch on one side. This notch is not a defect and is, in fact, a very intentional design feature. The little indent serves as an escape route for any excess fat, enabling it to drain off before indulging in a spoonful of deliciousness."

From: https://www.tastingtable.com/1107019/types-of-spoons-explained/

I did not know this.

 

[Michi]

The little indent serves as an escape route for any excess fat, enabling it to drain off before indulging in a spoonful of deliciousness."

From: https://www.tastingtable.com/1107019/types-of-spoons-explained/

I did not know this.

Beware, the enablers never sleep…

 

[sansho]

Lacto-fermented some extra chilies from work at 3% salt by weight in a vac bag. After a few weeks they were ready to go. I blended them well including the liquid they produce. After several minutes I have a decent puree. Running the puree threw my centrifuge left me with a clear liquid and byproduct chili paste. I decided to reduce the liquid by half on the stove top to get a Cholula hot sauce like consistency. I enjoyed the resulting sauce as its only two ingredients and has a very pure flavor.

A few things I considered:

• adding vinegar for extra bite
• using xanthan gum to thicken
• reducing by half using a dehydrator to preserve aromatic notes
• increasing the spin time from 10min to 15min for a more clear result
• using pectinx for a higher liquid yield
• using a rotovap from work to reduce

did you find the result too salty after reducing by half? most of the salt was in the supernatant, so it started at >3% even before reducing. presumably, it could be >6%.

had to to google pectinx. i see that it breaks down pectin, and it's used for clarification, but i don't quite get how that works. is it just that it's runnier without pectin, and so suspended/colloidal solids can settle more easily?

 

[F-Flash]

I don't use that much hot sauces, but my absolute favorite was the one we made with my co-worker.

Smoked and fermented habaneros. Passion fruit juice, mango puree, some muscovado sugar, vinegar, salt and nothing else.

Kicks like a horse (I'm not chili head) but still fresh, little sweet and tasty.

 

[Michi]

I don't use that much hot sauces, but my absolute favorite was the one we made with my co-worker.

Smoked and fermented habaneros. Passion fruit juice, mango puree, some muscovado sugar, vinegar, salt and nothing else.

Kicks like a horse (I'm not chili head) but still fresh, little sweet and tasty.

Cold-smoked first and then fermented? I've never tried that.

 

[F-Flash]

Cold-smoked first and then fermented? I've never tried that.

Actually hot smoked and then fermented. Took some time to get fermenting going.

 

[Michi]

Actually hot smoked and then fermented. Took some time to get fermenting going.

That's why I asked. I was wondering whether the smoking wouldn't interfere with fermentation. I know that smoking increases mold resistance. It need not be the same thing for yeasts, but wouldn't be a surprise if it inhibited yeast growth, too.

I might have to try this with my next batch of habaneros from the garden