drrayeye
Senior Member
I was given a nakiri in Japan 3o0 years ago--and I'm still using it--but now with a Xinzao that's wider and heavier, and a Chinese vegetable cleaver.
Hot Take: Does anyone actually use a Nakiri?
- Thread starter Michael.ju.5889
- Start date
Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:
Now, if you want weird... I like nakiris and love my tall Wat Pro but I seem to prefer shorter (height) gyuto's. Once a gyuto gets up to around 50mm+, I find myself reaching for those with less height. Maybe it's because I do more rock chopping with gytuos so I like the shorter height but I do more push cutting with nakiri so the height works.
I usually tell myself and others that I only like 240 mm gyutos but ever since I have a Kisuke Manaka B#2 170 mm Nakiri that is the knife I reach the most for prep and I love to sharpen it as well. I use it so much and sharpen it so much that I am close to the cladding line already in less then a year. I am a home cook but I cook almost every day sometimes multiple meals.
Why do I like it so much? I think it just feels so comfortable, agile and easy to use. I can be really fast prepping with it if I need to but I can take it nice and slow and enjoy. It’s tall (56 mm at the heel and 51-ish at the tip) so it’s super easy to scoop produce from the cutting board and it’s not to bad to move stuff around, even though I much more like the long gyuto to move produce around. I would probably love it even more if it was 2 cm longer and even slightly taller.
An important note, I mainly use a Asahi cutting board which is not nice for rocking so I tend to use push cutting and other variations that play nicer with the grabbiness of the cutting board.
Why do I like it so much? I think it just feels so comfortable, agile and easy to use. I can be really fast prepping with it if I need to but I can take it nice and slow and enjoy. It’s tall (56 mm at the heel and 51-ish at the tip) so it’s super easy to scoop produce from the cutting board and it’s not to bad to move stuff around, even though I much more like the long gyuto to move produce around. I would probably love it even more if it was 2 cm longer and even slightly taller.
An important note, I mainly use a Asahi cutting board which is not nice for rocking so I tend to use push cutting and other variations that play nicer with the grabbiness of the cutting board.
McMan
Senior Member
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2018
- Messages
- 2,732
- Reaction score
- 3,318
Yeah, this is my perspective too. It's just fun to mix it up sometimes.
I haven't found the need to use a nakiri due to performance lacking with a gyuto.
But eventually I get sick of using a knife with no tip.
I only use my Nakiri out of occasional knife-guilt when I’m not doing any protein work. I think some of that is because it’s nothing special (cuts like a laser, but sticks) so it doesn’t necessarily entice me into using it.
So... Serious question...
What exactly is it the tip of a gyuto brings to the board that is so important? This gets said a lot but I sincerely am not sure why it so strongly held. A properly executed nakiri is quite capable out at the end.
This brunoise of garlic was done with a nakiri:
It's still about geometry.
Maybe it's a visual thing? Meaning it is easier to see a narrow tip on fine tasks than on the blocky nakiri? I could, uh hum, see that.
I probably put more value in the heel than I do the tip of a knife.
Chinese chef's have been getting along quite well without a tip for a hoop of years. It also doesn't seem like the tip/no tip comments come up nearly as often when talking cleavers vs. nakiris.
So I'm curious, what, in general home cooking tasks makes the fine tip of a gyuto that valuable?
What exactly is it the tip of a gyuto brings to the board that is so important? This gets said a lot but I sincerely am not sure why it so strongly held. A properly executed nakiri is quite capable out at the end.
This brunoise of garlic was done with a nakiri:
It's still about geometry.
Maybe it's a visual thing? Meaning it is easier to see a narrow tip on fine tasks than on the blocky nakiri? I could, uh hum, see that.
I probably put more value in the heel than I do the tip of a knife.
Chinese chef's have been getting along quite well without a tip for a hoop of years. It also doesn't seem like the tip/no tip comments come up nearly as often when talking cleavers vs. nakiris.
So I'm curious, what, in general home cooking tasks makes the fine tip of a gyuto that valuable?
I got my first one 40 years ago. Used mostly for vegies. It was for home use, and I still have it, though well worn
and in retirement in the souvenir drawer. I got a tall H. Togashi 180 in W1 to replace it, but it hasn't gotten the use I was expecting. A few things about it weren't working for me, maybe I'll try it again.
and in retirement in the souvenir drawer. I got a tall H. Togashi 180 in W1 to replace it, but it hasn't gotten the use I was expecting. A few things about it weren't working for me, maybe I'll try it again.
There are lots of things i hold between my thumb and index finger and slice with the tip. For example, cherry tomato and other round things that roll. Nakiri is rather tall for this.
For what it's worth, on the comparison to Chinese caidao, those tend to have a square end (and thus basically a right angle tip) that you can use for procedures requiring a pointy end, whereas I find most nakiri have a rounded end. This of course varies by knife
That said, I agree the usefulness of a pointed tip is a bit overstated sometimes. It could be useful when you need to do some really fine work, but then a 240mm gyuto probably isn't the best candidate for that anyway (pointed tip or not).
I tell you guys maz is the king of all worlds. Real tip + fffffat spine + taper = small chopping fury. It fits the bill for two finger hold tip slicing as it’s unfortunately pretty low.
Now knife guilt is a new term but a very old feeling. Cute one.
One reason I like mine (that has very little to do with the shape) is mine came chubby bte. I thought I thinned it when I was a noob but no. Huge fail. As a result it’s tougher than nails and I can flail it around, twist out avocado pits and smash stuff with the spine.
Maybe it’s because I don’t have a super workhorse 180 gyuto. Still. I freaking love flat spots.
Now knife guilt is a new term but a very old feeling. Cute one.
One reason I like mine (that has very little to do with the shape) is mine came chubby bte. I thought I thinned it when I was a noob but no. Huge fail. As a result it’s tougher than nails and I can flail it around, twist out avocado pits and smash stuff with the spine.
Maybe it’s because I don’t have a super workhorse 180 gyuto. Still. I freaking love flat spots.
Does a 240mm Nakiri count? If so, yes. But still not as much as my Gyuto's.
- Joined
- May 1, 2012
- Messages
- 4,090
- Reaction score
- 10,653
Rarely, but yeah, I do every now and then:
In a smaller professional kitchen I think they are fantastic. Enough cutting power to be able to chop through ingredients with that ‘fun-fall-through-ingredients’ feeling but without a tip to worry about breaking.
And as far as benefits to a regular tip I will say that using the front tip corner of a Nakiri works very well. I personally no longer have to work in a tiny kitchen (although I am about to have to again with a new restaurant opening) so I generally reach for a CCK 1303 instead but it is essentially the exact same on a slightly larger scale. I use the corner tip of my CCK the same way I use a gyuto tip (horizontal cuts/small dicing/til draw) and it works phenomenally.
Over all, as many people said, it’s just a fun knife to use. One could of course use a gyuto for the same tasks but something about that long flat edge just feels oh so good.
And as far as benefits to a regular tip I will say that using the front tip corner of a Nakiri works very well. I personally no longer have to work in a tiny kitchen (although I am about to have to again with a new restaurant opening) so I generally reach for a CCK 1303 instead but it is essentially the exact same on a slightly larger scale. I use the corner tip of my CCK the same way I use a gyuto tip (horizontal cuts/small dicing/til draw) and it works phenomenally.
Over all, as many people said, it’s just a fun knife to use. One could of course use a gyuto for the same tasks but something about that long flat edge just feels oh so good.
I have a 180 Toyama Nakiri and i love that thing to death. We do eat quite a bit of vegetables so it makes prep super fun, but i am also someone who loves a tall Bunka.
If i cut more bigger pieces of protein or fish i would probably get knives for that as well but the family hates fish for the most part unless it's fish sticks or she will by frozen salmon filets once in a blue moon for a spaghetti dish. But protein you ain't buying huge cuts here in Germany like i would back in the states because it is just so pricy so it's usually Gulasch meat pre cut from the butcher or ground beef/pork, chicken does happen a lot but it doesn't need any special chopping that my Victorinox brisket knife couldn't handle.
If i cut more bigger pieces of protein or fish i would probably get knives for that as well but the family hates fish for the most part unless it's fish sticks or she will by frozen salmon filets once in a blue moon for a spaghetti dish. But protein you ain't buying huge cuts here in Germany like i would back in the states because it is just so pricy so it's usually Gulasch meat pre cut from the butcher or ground beef/pork, chicken does happen a lot but it doesn't need any special chopping that my Victorinox brisket knife couldn't handle.
Do I really have any justification for any of my knives tho? Just based on a functionality standpoint I’d have a pretty hard time.
I usually prefer giant gyutos and cleavers. I find gyutos less than 240mm in length to be too short to be much use to me and I have not kept any smaller than 240. But I have a little 165mm nakiri that I love and use all of the time for cooking at home. Nothing better for getting ready for a big stew/curry/stir fry. A nakiri has a perfectly functional tip on the heel. Just rotate it around. And even without a tip at the toe a nakiri works well for draw cuts. And a little one is small enough for in hand peeling and slicing work. Mine is gently curved so I can still rock a little. It is a laser but has hand forged swells and hollows that give it excellent food release geometry.
I love my Nakiri's and use them all the time. For lettuce & cabbage I always use Nakiri, for e.g. bell peppers and mushrooms I prefer a short Gyuto or a petty, for the rest I just use what's in my hand 
Santoku's on the other hand - if I want the tip I pick a gyuto, if I want the flat edge I use the Nakiri. Never reach for my Santoku anymore.
Santoku's on the other hand - if I want the tip I pick a gyuto, if I want the flat edge I use the Nakiri. Never reach for my Santoku anymore.
I keep buying gyutos because differences between them are more stark and I make a point to use them more to justify purchases and learn intricacies buuuuut I actually find my nakiris preferable for the vast majority of vegetable tasks, which is the vast majority of my prep. I need a 240 gyuto to equal a 170/180 nakiri for sweet spot. I think that's why I gravitate towards gyuto profiles with some curve like S. Tanaka or Munetoshi because it separates the genres more for me. Every time I pick up my Shindo or Kochi nakiri I question why I spent so much money on gyutos.
I also think the no-tip discourse is way overblown. All 3 of my nakiri have a rounded tip and those rounded tips are sharp as hell, You just have to adjust your technique when using it but I find them very capable. I concur with others that nakiris are easier to get precise brunoise etc. with. The 170-180 mm range is really a sweet spot for me with them.
To muddle things more I've tasted a ~205mm Chopper King small slicer that has a teeny bit of curve and seems to be a fun nakiri gyuto hybrid in feel/utility and I'm having a blast with it.
I also think the no-tip discourse is way overblown. All 3 of my nakiri have a rounded tip and those rounded tips are sharp as hell, You just have to adjust your technique when using it but I find them very capable. I concur with others that nakiris are easier to get precise brunoise etc. with. The 170-180 mm range is really a sweet spot for me with them.
To muddle things more I've tasted a ~205mm Chopper King small slicer that has a teeny bit of curve and seems to be a fun nakiri gyuto hybrid in feel/utility and I'm having a blast with it.
I just used mine last night because of this thread, so thank you for that.
If I have one complaint about my nakiri it is about the length, or lack of length. I have the space and just enjoy a 240 length more than the 165mm length of my nakiri. With some stuff, I have to drag cut a bit then rock backwards to complete the cut. With a 240, most stuff is chopped in one motion.
Me thinks a 240 nakiri is in the cards at some point. For science analysis, obviously
If I have one complaint about my nakiri it is about the length, or lack of length. I have the space and just enjoy a 240 length more than the 165mm length of my nakiri. With some stuff, I have to drag cut a bit then rock backwards to complete the cut. With a 240, most stuff is chopped in one motion.
Me thinks a 240 nakiri is in the cards at some point. For science analysis, obviously
You know, that may not be a bad idea. I have been wanting to try his work for a while. I did enjoy the Apex Ultra Isasmedjan pass around and I know he works with AU. The stars seem to be aligningSounds like a fine @MSicardCutlery project!
Dan-
Senior Member
There’s always this one (credit @refcast)
https://knifejapan.com/okubo-kajiya-takenoko-nakiri-250mm-aogami-2/
https://knifejapan.com/okubo-kajiya-takenoko-nakiri-250mm-aogami-2/
I saw that one. Looks awesome and rustic, which I like, but I think it's way too tall for me. Short person, tall working surface. I'm assuming it would be too tall, as I haven't used anything taller than my 57mm tall nakiri. 53-55 seems to be my sweet spot. I think I'm gonna pick up a cheap Chinese cleaver and do some testing.
Sorry to derail from the originally schedule nakiri programming
Sorry to derail from the originally schedule nakiri programming
I have a Hinokuni 210 nakiri that's pretty pleasant, though it's a thicker more workhorse grind than a Kochi nakiri, it does have better food release and doesn't suffer from stiction like a cleaver though. I intend to delve into the 240 nakiri game soon as well, but I want a laser edged one
Oh wow, that should be interesting.
I was using nakiris a lot for vegetable and fruit prep but sort of gravitated towards bunkas, especially those times where a point comes in handy, say for for cutting out stem ends of tomatoes, etc.
Keith Sinclair
Senior Member
Never bought a Nakiri all these years. Had used plenty cleavers. Finding using more small blades at home, found a reasonable priced carbon Nakiri & decided to try one.
Almost bought a Watanabe Nakiri years ago, bought a Wat. fish Deba instead sold my Deba when I retired. When started buying fresh fish from Chinatown bought the Wat. Deba. Have two Watanabe iron clad gyuto.
One I bought this month put a very sharp edge on the blue #2 steel. It has a thin grind.
Falls through large carrots. Kyohei 170mm.
Find myself using mainly because still very sharp. If I need tip got plenty of those on magblock.
Almost bought a Watanabe Nakiri years ago, bought a Wat. fish Deba instead sold my Deba when I retired. When started buying fresh fish from Chinatown bought the Wat. Deba. Have two Watanabe iron clad gyuto.
One I bought this month put a very sharp edge on the blue #2 steel. It has a thin grind.
Falls through large carrots. Kyohei 170mm.
Find myself using mainly because still very sharp. If I need tip got plenty of those on magblock.
Attachments
I shave with baby nakiri, does that count?
Seriously I should because they're so functional. They just don't look like knives to me so I don't. Probably my loss.
