How do you deal with the ura?

[monty]

I noticed on Maxim's deba video he uses a different stone to deal with the ura. I typically start each stone with the ura and deal with the ura on every stone in my progression. How do you handle the ura? Is there a method to your madness?

 

[maxim]

Ura is just for removing burr that is why i remove only on the finest stone i have.

 

[monty]

That makes sense. As I look at the ura on my single bevel I often wonder if I'm removing too much steel. I suspect that by using every stone on my ura I'm removing much more than I need.

 

[Citizen Snips]

so technically you are not chasing the burr, just straightening the kaeri??

ive never used that method but it might be something i want to try as ive also felt like there is a better method for single bevels as i am finishing up on a stone.

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

That makes sense. As I look at the ura on my single bevel I often wonder if I'm removing too much steel. I suspect that by using every stone on my ura I'm removing much more than I need.

I just use my finest stone to remove the burr, just like Maksim does. I can't remember where I read it, but someone once said that the number one reason single-bevel knives "wore out" was over sharpening the ura.

 

[maxim]

No you definitely dont have to raze a burr on ura, but you have to make sure that your ura is even and straight if it is you dont need to go to a coarser stone
After you razed a burr on bevel and you can feel it on the ura side polish you ura on very fine stone if you ura is burr free then you ura is straight and even

 

[iceman01]

Jon gave me the hint to only use the highest grit stone on the ura.

 

[UglyJoe]

Yes. If you look at itasan18's video on sharpening you will see the classic result of sharpening these knives wrong (I love his videos on cooking, but wouldn't recommend his sharpening video to anyone). He uses what looks like King 1000, King 6000, and something else that I don't recognize, but he clearly does a lot of sharpening on the ura-side of his knife with the 1000 stone. If you look at his knife, the ura side has been flattened to the point that the concave back has started to disappear. The flat area of the ura side is nearly 1 cm thick - all the way around, spine-side and edge-side! This is the natural result of over-sharpening the ura side. As long as the knife came with a decent ura polish, as most do, then you should only have to hit it with a very fine stone, just to polish it up and remove the burr from sharpening the face side of the knife. Now if the ura is significantly damaged (say a chip in the knife is large enough that removing the chip results in losing the flat edge on the ura) then you will need to go up through the progression again to reestablish the edge. Otherwise, for normal sharpening, you should not be sharpening the ura side with coarse stones. Your goal should be to end up with something like this...

That image was taken from So's japan-tool website. I'd highly suggest going there and reading his "journal" on traditional japanese knives he has restored and polished. Lot's of great info. http://www.japan-tool.com/hamono/Knife_Polishing/Knife_Polishing.html

 

[Dave Martell]

The coarsest stone I use on the back is a 1k(ish) and that's only for the first time set up when the knife is new. Of course you will follow through the rest of your stones until polished. Once the back side is set up correctly there should only ever be a need to use the polishing stone on it. By only using a very fine non-aggressive stone on the back side you will keep the hollow grind in tact.

 

[Eamon Burke]

I flattened the blade road on a Yanagi recently that was not ground(or hammered or whatever) evenly. I raised a burr so big that it cut my finger. I was on a 130 grit stone for like 20 minutes. Two swipes on the back side and it was gone...just broke right off. I don't see any reason to rub that side much at all.

It's common to hear that for every 10 strokes on the edge bevel, you do one on the ura. I think this is still overkill. I have seen many a Yanagi and Deba that are ruined because the ura is ground to crap.

So yes, I too only deburr on fine stones.

 

[monty]

Awesome. Another sharpening flaw fixed

 

[THOR]

Jon gave me the hint to only use the highest grit stone on the ura.

Jon's video on single bevel sharpening is pretty good. Straight forward, clear and good explanation of why and why not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvDjASvVHek