How do you use naguras?

[Carl Kotte]

Dear members, I have a question about naguras. I have a few natural naguras and some synthetic ones. I used to use them for two different but related reasons: 1. To clean the stone while sharpening (to remove clogged steel from certain areas of my stones); 2. To work up slurry.
My question is related to 2. I’ve tried to improve my polishing recently and I’ve discovered that I don’t get very good slurries with my naguras. The slurries I get seem to contain small particles that scratch up my blade. By contrast, I get very nice and even slurries with the help of an atoma.
Now there are many hidden variables here (e.g. it could be that my naguras are all junk, or that I’m combining stones and naguras in stupid ways etc etc) but in order to narrow things down a little I’m going to presuppose (at least initially) that my bad experiences with naguras have to do with technique. So, finally, Here’s the question: How do you use naguras to get a good slurry?
Help is much appreciated!

 

[musicman980]

I have one nagura that is just plain crumbly. It’s a super hard aoto piece that broke off the main stone and it just makes gritty slurry. I’ve had a super hard nagura before, a Tsushima, so I can’t say for sure it was due to the hardness. It may have just been a bad quality piece that broke off.

My atoma makes a nice slurry on my aoto. I’ve wondered if the atoma grinds the bigger chunks into smaller ones as it makes the slurry, improving the slurry quality the more I lap, but I can’t confirm.

 

[Carl Kotte]

Thanks @musicman980 ! It seems like you have somewhat similar experiences as I do. That’s comforting to know. Gritty! That’s probably what I wanted to described.

 

[SeattleBen]

FWIW I have the same experience with my aoto and a nagura, also from the aoto, get better results with an atoma.

 

[kayman67]

Atoma might do some of the work in advance?

This seems a bit strange, but with some coticules, I've seen that if I use a 600 diamond plate, I get one type of slurry and if I use the 1200, I get another, finer.

Taking the naguras themselves out of the equation is pretty easy. Just make slurry using the plate on them and transfer that slurry on the stone. See what happens.

 

[AFKitchenknivesguy]

Atoma might do some of the work in advance?

This seems a bit strange, but with some coticules, I've seen that if I use a 600 diamond plate, I get one type of slurry and if I use the 1200, I get another, finer.

Taking the naguras themselves out of the equation is pretty easy. Just make slurry using the plate on them and transfer that slurry on the stone. See what happens.

For natural stones, not strange at all. They break down into different sizes, so a finer Atoma would potentially create a finer slurry.

 

[Carl Kotte]

@kayman67 Cool! That’s a good idea! I’ll try that and report back. Thanks!

 

[kayman67]

For natural stones, not strange at all. They break down into different sizes, so a finer Atoma would potentially create a finer slurry.

True, but not everyone is convinced that using different plates will influence the outcome.

 

[Bolek]

Beware with ato, it has a preferred orientation orthogonal to its strata. It can also applies to ato used as nagura.

 

[TSF415]

I thought I was going crazy. Glad to know it wasn't just me. I actually just used an atoma yesterday to try and create a ton of mud and it worked well. This process of learning to polish is definitely going to take some time. I was always impressed by the guys who post their polishes but now even more since trying to do it myself.

 

[Carl Kotte]

@TSF415 Yes you’re in good (or perhaps bad?!?) company. There seems to be quite many members here with the same experience. Hopefully an experienced nagura user will come forward and give us some good pointers. But who could it be?

 

[M1k3]

@TSF415 Yes you’re in good (or perhaps bad?!?) company. There seems to be quite many members here with the same experience. Hopefully an experienced nagura user will come forward and give us some good pointers. But who could it be?

I have some ideas of who. One of their names start with an 'N', the other one a 'P'...

 

[M1k3]

Oh and another that starts with a 'V' and makes delicious looking ugly food.

 

[Carl Kotte]

I have some ideas of who. One of their names start with an 'N', the other one a 'P'...

I have no idea what or whom you’re talking about.

 

[Carl Kotte]

Oh and another that starts with a 'V' and makes delicious looking ugly food.

Summon them! We need to know!

 

[M1k3]

@nutmeg, @PalmRoyale or @valgard perhaps?

 

[PalmRoyale]

When I started with jnats I used naguras. The process is very simple, you just wet the stone and rub it with the nagura. The thing you have to understand about naguras is that their intended use is not to make a slurry. They're meant to level and condition the surface (nagura literally means correcting). The slurry is a nice side effect that speeds up sharpening but you can also rinse it off depending on the level of finesse or the polish you want. If you want consistent results with a nagura I would advice you to buy an Asano appraised nagura. These have a know and consistent quality.

As for me, I stopped using naguras a long time ago. Imo a diamond plate does a better job of keeping the stone level and it creates a better slurry.

 

[lemeneid]

The other way to look at it imo is mud management. If you have more mud, you will have more stray particles. That’s why as you hone and finish your blade, you should gradually use less mud, so chances of catching a stray particle is lesser.

Additionally, contrary to what is advised, I think it’s best to use either a nagura or extremely fine sandpaper to make slurry. Coarse stones or diamond plates can gouge out huge particles hence leading to more scratching, so be careful.

Typically the stones I chose don’t produce much slurry. But I’ve never needed much anyway. Just a little watery black ink is more than enough for me to sharpen knives. Besides, if your stones are so muddy, it’s probably not that long lasting either.

 

[GoodMagic]

I too use naguras l for two reasons. For synthetic stones to clean. I use whatever came with the stone. I rarely flatten. For hard jnats I use a asano botan to make a slurry. I find that this speeds up the stone. I don’t use one on soft jnats or to raise a slurry on synthetics.

 

[Carl Kotte]

@PalmRoyale Thanks, that was very helpful! I’m beginning to sense that while my technique may not be the best, it has little to do with the issue that made me pose the question to begin with. One thing your post made me realize is that a nagura might not be the best option for raising a slurry (and in case it is a decent option, careful slurry management is any way in order). This makes me think that one of the presuppositions I suppresed initially is important. That at least some of my naguras might be junk (which honestly wouldn’t surprise me ), or that I’m combining different pieces of rock in an unsuitable fashion.

 

[musicman980]

Nagura can also give different finishes on your blade and different edges, and can also increase the speed of your base stone if the base stone is not grit rich.