How to get over an aversion to carbon steel?

[azn_knives_4l]

I just spent a *bunch* of time thinning out a carbon steel knife of mine and it really cuts well. I'd like to use it more regularly but have a hard time dealing with even the idea of stained onions. It's never really been a problem with this particular knife but I'm a little traumatized from a Zwilling Kramer. Does using first on cooked meat make enough difference to matter? Any tips? Thanks!

 

[aporigine]

I just spent a *bunch* of time thinning out a carbon steel knife of mine and it really cuts well. I'd like to use it more regularly but have a hard time dealing with even the idea of stained onions. It's never really been a problem with this particular knife but I'm a little traumatized from a Zwilling Kramer. Does using first on cooked meat make enough difference to matter? Any tips? Thanks!

my suggestion? Slice and dice a sacrificial onion. The patina builds fast, and so long as you don’t clean the blade back down to raw steel, the next onion will not discolor.

 

[Qapla']

I "artificially" patinate my bare-carbon-steel knives with vinegar before their first use.

 

[timebard]

I "artificially" patinate my bare-carbon-steel knives with vinegar before their first use.

This. Vinegar, coffee, citrus juice, mustard, or a foul mix of any of the above will all build a durable patina in a hurry. I had an overly reactive Munetoshi that benefited a lot from a couple dunks in a coffee/vinegar mix.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Thanks, y'all. Sounds like passivating to some extent is the way to go

 

[aporigine]

Thanks, y'all. Sounds like passivating to some extent is the way to go

Passivate aggressively.

 

[chiffonodd]

Yeah like others have said, this is a temporary problem. You'll always get that sulphureous smell and discolored onions at first and then after a while it just goes away and you're left with a beautiful, shifting patina and buttery-to-sharpen, slicey goodness.

Out of curiosity, what is the current knife you're dealing with? Some carbon steels are more reactive than others.

 

[jedy617]

We love our carbon on here, but in all honesty there is no reason you need to stick with that. Why not grab a myojin sg2, sukenari, or a nice ginsan?

 

[chiffonodd]

We love our carbon on here, but in all honesty there is no reason you need to stick with that. Why not grab a myojin sg2, sukenari, or a nice ginsan?

Or a custom in AEB-L or SF100 from @MSicardCutlery or @Knot Handcrafted

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Yeah like others have said, this is a temporary problem. You'll always get that sulphureous smell and discolored onions at first and then after a while it just goes away and you're left with a beautiful, shifting patina and buttery-to-sharpen, slicey goodness.

Out of curiosity, what is the current knife you're dealing with? Some carbon steels are more reactive than others.

Is a Kochi from JKI. Picture below. My usual knives are stainless Gingas, @jedy617

 

[chiffonodd]

Is a Kochi from JKI. Picture below. My usual knives are stainless Gingas, @jedy617 View attachment 325531

So it's one of the v2 iron clad? I have heard extremely positive things from most owners. I actually have a v2 iron clad nakiri by Wakui which should be, shall we say, very similar Still need to test it but I'll let you know if I find it overly reactive. @daddy yo yo was a fan of the v2 iron clad wakui as well, maybe he has some thoughts on reactivity.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

So it's one of the v2 iron clad? I have heard extremely positive things from most owners. I actually have a v2 iron clad nakiri by Wakui which should be, shall we say, very similar Still need to test it but I'll let you know if I find it overly reactive. @daddy yo yo was a fan of the v2 iron clad wakui as well, maybe he has some thoughts on reactivity.

Is stainless clad, actually. I *think* White 2 but not saying definitively. It cuts like hell, lmao.

 

[chiffonodd]

Is stainless clad, actually. I *think* White 2 but not saying definitively. It cuts like hell, lmao.

Yes the stainless clad are w#2 iirc. The migaki kochi are b#2 and the ku iron clad are v2.

W#2 is not known to be particularly reactive. I had a gesshin ginga w#2 and after an initial period of patina formation it was completely fine.

I'm sure you will be fine once you form a stable patina. If you want some fun colors you can slice some hot protein, chicken breast etc

 

[Justinv]

Stainless clad carbon is a great choice. I’m one of the few here that doesn’t like reactive knives. Stainless clad carbon is good. Stainless clad tool steel is great. I have no full stainless on my rack other than paring knives. I have one iron clad on my rack and its days are numbered.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Stainless clad carbon is a great choice. I’m one of the few here that doesn’t like reactive knives. Stainless clad carbon is good. Stainless clad tool steel is great. I have no full stainless on my rack other than paring knives. I have one iron clad on my rack and its days are numbered.

Absolutely! I gave it a run yesterday and there was some staining on the onions but more manageable today. Cuts so nicely

 

[bill_zeng]

There are two ways:
one is to use a knife with stainless steel cladding over carbon steel, replacing the most rust-prone soft iron part.

The second way is to apply an anti-rust coating yourself. Many carbon steel kitchen knives come with an anti-rust coating from the factory, which is very effective.

 

[aporigine]

There are two ways:
one is to use a knife with stainless steel cladding over carbon steel, replacing the most rust-prone soft iron part.

The second way is to apply an anti-rust coating yourself. Many carbon steel kitchen knives come with an anti-rust coating from the factory, which is very effective.

My preferred antirust coating is produced by frying bacon.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

There are two ways:
one is to use a knife with stainless steel cladding over carbon steel, replacing the most rust-prone soft iron part.

The second way is to apply an anti-rust coating yourself. Many carbon steel kitchen knives come with an anti-rust coating from the factory, which is very effective.
View attachment 325565

Yeh, mine is clad in stainless but still needs some help. I'll give it a shot after the next sharpening.

 

[bill_zeng]

My preferred antirust coating is produced by frying bacon.

This is also a good method. I've also tried using oil smoke to coat the carbon steel knife while frying a steak, which also helps to prevent rust.

 

[mengwong]

Snagged a bottle of this stuff the other day.

https://edciformula.com/

Good alternative to VCI paper inside the saya.

Not sure if it does anything for onions.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Snagged a bottle of this stuff the other day.

https://edciformula.com/

Good alternative to VCI paper inside the saya.

Not sure if it does anything for onions.

Whoa. This is super cool. Thanks for the heads up. I would have thought these were toxic.

 

[aporigine]

Snagged a bottle of this stuff the other day.

https://edciformula.com/

Good alternative to VCI paper inside the saya.

Not sure if it does anything for onions.

View attachment 325569

It will probably lubricate onions.
That might not be a service to humanity.

 

[timebard]

Stainless clad tool steel is great.

Honestly if you don't like dealing with reactivity stainless clad A2 is super low maintenance, gives you a little patina street cred, and sharpens up easy. Basically just don't leave it wet overnight and you're probably fine.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Honestly if you don't like dealing with reactivity stainless clad A2 is super low maintenance, gives you a little patina street cred, and sharpens up easy. Basically just don't leave it wet overnight and you're probably fine.

Could be an option for a next knife, yeh. Just trying to figure out this current one for now.

 

[M1k3]

Cut onion.
Allow juices to sit on blade for a few minutes.
Run hot water over it.
Dry.
Repeat until onion staining stops.

 

[Justinv]

Honestly if you don't like dealing with reactivity stainless clad A2 is super low maintenance, gives you a little patina street cred, and sharpens up easy. Basically just don't leave it wet overnight and you're probably fine.

Sounds good, but I don’t know anyone making this. Shihan might. I’ve been searching for stainless clad apex ultra for a while.

 

[azn_knives_4l]

Sounds good, but I don’t know anyone making this. Shihan might. I’ve been searching for stainless clad apex ultra for a while.

There are metallurgy reasons for this, surely? I think some useful and practical combinations exist but don't know what they are.

 

[timebard]

Sounds good, but I don’t know anyone making this. Shihan might. I’ve been searching for stainless clad apex ultra for a while.

Yoshikane, Masashi, Gengetsu, Heiji (unconfirmed but if not A2 something close) for stainless clad A2/SKD. Edit: @MSicardCutlery has done at least one stainless clad ApexUltra blade, could ask him...

 

[Delat]

I like to do an overnight soak in extra strong instant coffee. Take out once or twice to wash with soap and dry thoroughly on a paper towel then put back in the coffee to help get a stronger patina. Different steels will go different shades of grey, ranging from pitch black to battleship grey.

I cook onions with practically every meal and really hate the brown patina you get from them, so I tend to just do a coffee dunk right away if the maker didn’t already. Cooked beef gives a prettier blue patina if you want to go a more natural route.

Anyway, if you have stainless-clad with a dark ku, you get a very cool effect of dark, shiny, dark like this blue super after coffee.

A hand-forged lamination (I suspect the knife above is probably a stock removal factory billet to have such a clean lamination line) without a nickel layer gives a cool smokey effect with the carbon diffusion like this.

 

[Qapla']

I like to do an overnight soak in extra strong instant coffee. Take out once or twice to wash with soap and dry thoroughly on a paper towel then put back in the coffee to help get a stronger patina. Different steels will go different shades of grey, ranging from pitch black to battleship grey.

I cook onions with practically every meal and really hate the brown patina you get from them, so I tend to just do a coffee dunk right away if the maker didn’t already. Cooked beef gives a prettier blue patina if you want to go a more natural route.

Anyway, if you have stainless-clad with a dark ku, you get a very cool effect of dark, shiny, dark like this blue super after coffee.

View attachment 325572

A hand-forged lamination (I suspect the knife above is probably a stock removal factory billet to have such a clean lamination line) without a nickel layer gives a cool smokey effect with the carbon diffusion like this.

View attachment 325573

Which knives are those?