How to remove a pinned handle?

[Dave]

Youtube is my usual go to for this type of stuff but I can't find a tutorial on this anywhere. Help pls!

The bottom one btw:

 

[birdsfan]

Is it a Japanese Yo handle?

 

[Dave]

I've added it to the OP. The Eddworks on the bottom.

 

[birdsfan]

Nice! Eddie's S-grinds are great performers!

I am gonna guess that Eddie uses epoxy to mount these. Also assume that you dont want to destroy the handle. So I guess the way I would approach this is to stick the handle in a toaster oven, with the blade sticking out of the gap of the door. Protect the blade where it sticks out with some cardboard or something. Just to keep the cladding from getting scratched up. Heat to about 250 F for 10-15 minutes. This may soften the glue. If 1 side of the pin is smaller than the other, use a center punch and a mallet to try and tap the pin through. Place 2 boards on either side of the pin, underneath the handle. Once the pin is out, the handle could be removed, using the board and mallet technique.

Did I write that clearly?

 

[drsmp]

Have you asked Eddie?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

Paging @eddworks

 

[Dave]

Thank you @birdsfan I was with you until the “Place 2 boards on either side of the pin, underneath the handle.” bit.

Everything else made sense.

 

[Heckel7302]

Thank you @birdsfan I was with you until the “Place 2 boards on either side of the pin, underneath the handle.” bit.

Everything else made sense.

He means you need to put it on a flat surface with a space under the pin so it has somewhere to go when you push it through. Could just be one board with a hole in it under where the pin is.

 

[birdsfan]

Exactly that

 

[eddworks]

Paging @eddworks

About a year ago, I switched to using hot glue to mount blades for exactly this reason given some advice from a renowned handle guy here on the forums All the current mono handles are hot glued, I did some destructive testing and the handle would always break before the glue joint. I also increased tang length some to help.

This knife is *probably* epoxy, but you might get lucky and it could be hot glue.

@birdsfan suggestions sound pretty spot on to me, although if it is epoxy I doubt you will be able to get the handle off without some damage. The pin is symmetrical, you can punch it out from either side, although it is glued in as well.

And of course if you want me to work on it just shoot me a message and we can chat about it!

Eddie

 

[Dave]

About a year ago, I switched to using hot glue to mount blades for exactly this reason given some advice from a renowned handle guy here on the forums All the current mono handles are hot glued, I did some destructive testing and the handle would always break before the glue joint. I also increased tang length some to help.

This knife is *probably* epoxy, but you might get lucky and it could be hot glue.

@birdsfan suggestions sound pretty spot on to me, although if it is epoxy I doubt you will be able to get the handle off without some damage. The pin is symmetrical, you can punch it out from either side, although it is glued in as well.

And of course if you want me to work on it just shoot me a message and we can chat about it!

Eddie

Thanks Eddie!

Eagerly awaiting my custom spot, but this beauty will more than suffice in the meantime! I'll definitely let you know if there's anything you can help with (I wouldn't say no buying to one of your more current handles if you happen to have a spare one laying around ).

 

[Uncle Danny]

This is how you remove a handle with epoxy glued in.

 

[Uncle Danny]

Who the heck, uses epoxy for securing handles anyway

 

[Dave]

Who the heck, uses epoxy for securing handles anyway

I had to crack open two of those awful Rosewood Suiboku handles a couple weeks ago... might have to do the same here tbh.

 

[Uncle Danny]

Get the heavy tools out

 

[eddworks]

This is how you remove a handle with epoxy glued in.

I fear you may be right!

 

[M1k3]

This is how you remove a handle with epoxy glued in.

View attachment 350028

So.... you didn't get angry at it?
Hmm..

 

[aporigine]

So.... you didn't get angry at it?
Hmm..

When epoxy is involved, the legendary lubricating power of mil-spec profanity is rather reduced.

 

[Dave]

I uh… listened to Danny

 

[birdsfan]

Well....its off and the knife is intact! Win!

 

[deltaplex]

I uh… listened to Danny

RIP pin

 

[enchappo]

Oh man. No shade to you Dave - and to be clear I don't have first hand experience with pinned handles - but just for anyone who comes across this thread in future, please don't destroy your lovely spalted handles if you don't need to.

Most common epoxies actually have a pretty low glass transition temperature (when they turn rubbery and give up their hold). For example, G-flex is an epoxy that is often used/recommended by handle makers, and it has a Tg between 60-70°C (140-160°F). And your generic 5-min epoxy (Gorilla, etc.) usually has a Tg of around 80°C (180°F). If you put the knife in the oven for 15min at 100°C (210°F) you will almost always be able to remove a non-pinned epoxied handle just by just pulling it off (I actually find constant traction is better in this rubbery state than the board and mallet method), and you are nowhere near the temperature that would affect the heat treat of the blade. You can get ultra high Tg epoxies that approach or exceed tempering temps, but I doubt any knifemaker is deliberately opting for those (and you would need to seek it out).

Now I don't know if the heating would have any chance of making the pin expand in the hole in the tang and thus be hard to drive out, but it won't be the epoxy that stops you.

 

[eddworks]

It's hard to be 100% sure from the picture, but if the adhesive is black, it is hot glue.

 

[jedy617]

About a year ago, I switched to using hot glue to mount blades for exactly this reason given some advice from a renowned handle guy here on the forums All the current mono handles are hot glued, I did some destructive testing and the handle would always break before the glue joint. I also increased tang length some to help.

This knife is *probably* epoxy, but you might get lucky and it could be hot glue.

@birdsfan suggestions sound pretty spot on to me, although if it is epoxy I doubt you will be able to get the handle off without some damage. The pin is symmetrical, you can punch it out from either side, although it is glued in as well.

And of course if you want me to work on it just shoot me a message and we can chat about it!

Eddie

Hot glue gang

 

[Gshep91]

I really liked that handle.. lol.

Also really glad I was the first person to get a mono ironwood handle from eddy though lol

 

[Uncle Danny]

Oh man. No shade to you Dave - and to be clear I don't have first hand experience with pinned handles - but just for anyone who comes across this thread in future, please don't destroy your lovely spalted handles if you don't need to.

Most common epoxies actually have a pretty low glass transition temperature (when they turn rubbery and give up their hold). For example, G-flex is an epoxy that is often used/recommended by handle makers, and it has a Tg between 60-70°C (140-160°F). And your generic 5-min epoxy (Gorilla, etc.) usually has a Tg of around 80°C (180°F). If you put the knife in the oven for 15min at 100°C (210°F) you will almost always be able to remove a non-pinned epoxied handle just by just pulling it off (I actually find constant traction is better in this rubbery state than the board and mallet method), and you are nowhere near the temperature that would affect the heat treat of the blade. You can get ultra high Tg epoxies that approach or exceed tempering temps, but I doubt any knifemaker is deliberately opting for those (and you would need to seek it out).

Now I don't know if the heating would have any chance of making the pin expand in the hole in the tang and thus be hard to drive out, but it won't be the epoxy that stops you.

I don’t agree with you a 100% here.

The picture I posted above was from after the handle has lived it’s last minutes of it’s life in an oven at around 100c absolutely nothing happened when I went at it - and I used my big hammer. And made a big mark in my removing tool (it’s a stick of softer wood, but tool gives it credit to all the work it’s done.)
I have come across two handles I couldn’t remove in any other way. A Manaka and this Nakagawa. Both where epoxy and just wouldn’t barge.

I’m all in for saving the wood/horn but to let people think that they can stick it in the oven for 10 min. at a 100c the it pops of, that’s is if they are lucky, but not a generel rule with epoxy.

Can’t speak for local products if they hold up better in Denmark than the states or Australia

 

[Uncle Danny]

Hot glue gang

Yes. Always. Makes it a breeze to take the handle on/off and forces you to do a nice snug fit to begin with.

Hot glue gang

 

[Uncle Danny]

It's hard to be 100% sure from the picture, but if the adhesive is black, it is hot glue.

You make nice tangs, Edd. Wink wink

 

[enchappo]

I don’t agree with you a 100% here.

The picture I posted above was from after the handle has lived it’s last minutes of it’s life in an oven at around 100c absolutely nothing happened when I went at it - and I used my big hammer. And made a big mark in my removing tool (it’s a stick of softer wood, but tool gives it credit to all the work it’s done.)
I have come across two handles I couldn’t remove in any other way. A Manaka and this Nakagawa. Both where epoxy and just wouldn’t barge.

I’m all in for saving the wood/horn but to let people think that they can stick it in the oven for 10 min. at a 100c the it pops of, that’s is if they are lucky, but not a generel rule with epoxy.

Can’t speak for local products if they hold up better in Denmark than the states or Australia

Yep, totally agree that 100°C isn't guaranteed, and maybe I should have said 'mostly' instead of 'almost always' (but has just been almost always in my exp.). But then if 100°C doesn't work it's fine to have another go at 125-130°C - still no risk to the blade.

Agree fully that it won't always work, but worth trying before the brute force method! (Incidentally I have that same Nakagawa... maybe I should try mine!)

 

[jedy617]

I have soaked a handle in a pot of boiling water for 20 minutes and it did not come off, never heard of epoxy coming off in an oven tbh