How to Sharpen a Victorinox Santoku ?

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

ayumi_ishida

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
11
Location
Honolulu Hawaii
Aloha ,

I'm in "lockdown" and need to sharpen my Victorinox Santoku . I have no experience .
Do I get a whetstone , or some other method ?
 

Yet-Another-Dave

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 1, 2017
Messages
227
Reaction score
34
Location
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
Right now, here, I'd suggest the Cerax 1000 full size stone because it can be had for cheap and works well. Most ~1000 grit stones would work for your task and differ mostly in their feel. As a beginner you don't really have a preference yet.

Jon, @JKI, 1000/6000 combo stone with his diamond flattening plate would be my deluxe option. Also, his sharpening playlist if the gold standard if you decide to go beyond the beginner basics in Michi's link.)

ETA: one stone, Michi's video and you may not get the best possible edge, but you'll do as well as the best mechanical sharpeners I've seen after only a couple tries.
 

Carl Kotte

Senior Member
Joined
Apr 5, 2019
Messages
1,840
Reaction score
2,466
Location
Stockholm, Sweden
Yeah, I would recommend getting a stone in the #1000 range (and a stone holder) and start practicing the technique. Take a look at the stones available where you live. If you’re uncertain about the brands, just ask here! Best of luck!
 

ayumi_ishida

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
11
Location
Honolulu Hawaii
Since I'm in lockdown , it's actually easier to order online .
And Since I have an entry level knife , the Victorinox Santoku , and I have no experience sharpening , guess it makes sense to get an entry level stone .
King 1000 ?
 

Michi

Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
2,865
Reaction score
3,342
Location
Brisbane, Australia
All the other suggestions are good, too. The Cerax 1000 is a fine stone (I have one myself), and the JKI 1000/6000 stone also has an excellent reputation. (I have not used the JKI one myself.)

For German/French/Swiss knives, which are made of fairly soft stainless steel, a honing rod is fine for maintenance, but it can't actually sharpen a knife. All a honing rod does is bring a knife that started out sharp and dulled a little bit back to sharpness. But only for a while. Eventually, you will have to re-sharpen the knife with a stone. So, a honing rod is good for a quick touch-up and helps to keep a knife sharp, but only if the knife started out sharp to begin with, and you don't let it get too dull.

For Japanese knives, which are made from much harder steels, a honing rod is likely to either do nothing, or to actually damage the edge. Some ceramic honing rods are OK with Japanese knives, but not all that many people bother with them. And, if you want a really sharp knife, a stone or two are the way to go.
 

M1k3

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2018
Messages
2,602
Reaction score
2,202
I have the King 1k/6k combo. That 1k stone will be fine. You could splurge on the combo, but, it's not necessary. Especially for the Victorinox. But, it could be nice in the future if you get something with harder/"nicer" steel. Or a separate stone altogether.

I'd definitely get a stone holder with your stone. A lapping plate also, but, not necessary immediately.
 

Michi

Supporting Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2019
Messages
2,865
Reaction score
3,342
Location
Brisbane, Australia
And Since I have an entry level knife , the Victorinox Santoku , and I have no experience sharpening , guess it makes sense to get an entry level stone .
King 1000 ?
King KDS 1000/6000 is almost identical in price, so you could take that, at least if you are planning to get some more fancy knives later. (Don't confuse the King KDS with the King KW65. They look almost identical, but the KW65 is smaller.)

Otherwise, the King 1000-grit stone is a good stone, too. And it is totally fine for soft-steel knives. (A 6000 stone with the Victorinox will require good sharpening technique; without that, chances are that the 6000 side will make the knife cut worse.)

Edit: Almost identical advice from @M1k3 and me :)
 
Last edited:

kayman67

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2019
Messages
799
Reaction score
448
Location
EU
I have the same advice as always. If you desire to learn sharpening with this kind of stones, get a softer King 1000 (or the KDS one, it's the same as far as experience goes) and it can help you learn a lot (much more than some other stones).

But if you don't, just get a cheap enough 400/1000 diamond plate. Should be 20-30$ and will give you the most practical edge with very little effort.

Using stones is great and develops even into some kind of therapy for most of us, but it might not be what everyone needs.
 

Uncle Mike

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2019
Messages
46
Reaction score
31
Location
USA
If you want a lot of information, check out Murray Carter’s sharpening video.

He emphasized technique and says you should use King 1000 and 5000 stones, which are pretty inexpensive. You could probably just use the 1000 for the Victorinox.
 

Benuser

Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
6,247
Reaction score
665
I've sharpened quite some brand new Victorinox Fibrox chef's. It's the same Krupp's 4116 Zwilling and Wüsthof use, but because of a different Heat Treatment it feels coarsely grained.
I use a Chosera 400 (JIS600) to make the factory geometry more acceptable by eliminating the pronounced shoulders. Deburring with a green scotch pad. No further refinement.
I don't know whether the OP's Santoku has dimples and what are its consequences.
 

Bobby2shots

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
74
Reaction score
40
Location
Lachute Quebec
I bought my first Vic (6" petty)18 months ago, in November 2018, and it has yet to require sharpening on stones,,,,just a very light touch-up with a steel or ceramic honing rod. It's my most often used knife and definitely the easiest knife to keep sharp that I've ever owned. I liked it so much that I bought a bunch of sets ranging from 3.5" parings to 10" Chefs and carving knives for my spouse, and both of her daughters, as well as a bunch more Vic's for myself. (Rosewood handles). I also own quite a few (20 or so) Wusthof Classics and IKON's as well as Zwilling Pro, Pro "S", Shun, MAC, and Miyabi.

Regarding sharpeners, I've got pretty well anything I could ever want, including a Tormek 10" wet-wheel grinder,, Chef's Choice elecrtric sharpener,,, 4-stone sets (400/1000/4000/8000) from Norton,,, similar 4-stone Shapton Glass set w/ lapping plate,,, King oil-stone,,Naniwa Aotoshi Green Brick of Joy,,,,, and the only item I've yet needed on my Vic 6" is either my Idahone 10" ceramic honing rod, and lately, my Zwilling butcher steel. A few light passes is generally all I ever need, and I can cut see-through tomato slices with ease.

Now, I'm generalizing here,,, but I tend to use the electric sharpeners only on damaged edges,,, mostly for friends who bring me "no-name thrift-store finds" that cost as little as $0.50. a piece.

If you feel you "must" sharpen on a stone, I would heartily recommend that you check out some of Peter Nowlans' superb videos. To me,,, effective sharpening is all about "a gentle touch",,, and Peter really stresses just how much pressure you need when sharpening on stones.

Here's a link to one of his videos, and you should easily find additional videos that Peter has produced.


Lastly, don't underestimate your Vic,,, I love mine. Trouble-free,,,chip-free,,,easy to maintain, warm in the hand (Rosewood handles),
 

ModRQC

Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
460
Reaction score
439
Location
QC, CA
Vic Santoku is a little beast of its own right. Thinning as Benuser suggests helps when you get to sharpening for real - but the Victo Santoku specifically is a very thin knife with lesser shoulders than thicker Victorinox, and if you never honed it before, and it has not been used for so long yet, you may find joy in a regular smooth steel rod. Not gonna sharpen as others have warned, but used correctly on an edge that is just dulled a bit for this knife makes wonder for one good prep. Rinse and repeat each prep and you may find yourself out of the need of a stone for another while. Not a bad tool to have under hand neither for lots of cutters in your kitchen that are made of soft SS and need a bit of redressing.
 

Keith Sinclair

Supporting Member
Joined
May 10, 2012
Messages
3,985
Reaction score
349
Location
Hawaii
Before discovered Japanese carbon steel used Forschners at time most used knife Hotels in Hawaii. Sharpened on large King 1K stone. Even then would go spine close to the stone to get thinner edges on regular 10" chef knife.

Could get them sharp, but doing lots of cutting would lose edge so lots of sharpening. Back then a 10" rosewood handle was 11.00 so would use backups before getting to stones again. Used steels too.

Japanese carbons were a game changer. Easy to sharpen and touchup important in a busy kitchen.
 

toddnmd

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2012
Messages
1,893
Reaction score
117
Location
Tokyo, Japan
Could you rephrase this? I have a hard time grasping what you're trying to say here...
I'll try: "I used to use Forschners. They were the most used knives at the time when I worked at hotel kitchens in Hawaii. Later, I discovered Japanese carbon steel knives, and moved on from Forschner." Implied meaning: Forschners are a solid choice for beginners and/or those on a tight budget.
 

ModRQC

Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
460
Reaction score
439
Location
QC, CA
I have a King 1000 arriving .
Still interested in trying a Nakiri : So , Victorinox Nakiri ?
I'm leaning toward MAC JU-65 .
I decided I want Stainless Steel and can budget up to $170 .
The Mac could be nice. Also of interest should be the Zwilling Diplôme/Miyabi, harder and better steel yet. Under 200$ you won't find much else towards harder stainless, and I don't know where you have access to buy this, but I'd take a good look around still.

You pretty much have the Victorinox Nakiri already with the Santoku - Victorinox Santoku is quite square and flat. Don't think you'd see much difference. The Zwilling or Mac wouldn't make much difference neither - not tall enough. Your Santoku is 46mm high, if you want to see a difference in use, look for something along the 55mm tall lines.
 

ayumi_ishida

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2020
Messages
56
Reaction score
11
Location
Honolulu Hawaii
So I received my King Home Stone K-45 and used it last night .
Do I need to completely dry it before re-use ?
The following is from the Korin website and looking for clarification . Thanks .

Knife Sharpening Guide: A How-to | KORIN

"Stones can be fragile and should never be over-soaked. Over-soaking will decrease the stone’s quality and make sharpening more difficult. After sharpening, wipe clean and allow to air dry. It is preferable to store stones in a dry towel."
 

demirtasem

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
8
Location
USA
King KDS 1000/6000 is almost identical in price, so you could take that, at least if you are planning to get some more fancy knives later. (Don't confuse the King KDS with the King KW65. They look almost identical, but the KW65 is smaller.)

Otherwise, the King 1000-grit stone is a good stone, too. And it is totally fine for soft-steel knives. (A 6000 stone with the Victorinox will require good sharpening technique; without that, chances are that the 6000 side will make the knife cut worse.)

Edit: Almost identical advice from @M1k3 and me :)

As a beginner I have a question. What happens if I go like 800+3k+Strop on Victorinox or same kind of knives instead of only 1k stone? Can somebody explain it to me?
 

ModRQC

Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
460
Reaction score
439
Location
QC, CA
For paraphrasing someone who knows better than me: because the refined edge won’t hold, since the matrix is weakened behind the edge. I think it has to do with big carbides vs fine abrasive but don’t quote me.
 

Benuser

Supporting Member
Joined
May 3, 2011
Messages
6,247
Reaction score
665
For paraphrasing someone who knows better than me: because the refined edge won’t hold, since the matrix is weakened behind the edge. I think it has to do with big carbides vs fine abrasive but don’t quote me.
Not behind the edge, at the edge.
The fine stone leaves the carbides intact, only weakens the already weak matrix around it a bit more. Leads to poor edge stability.
 

ModRQC

Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
460
Reaction score
439
Location
QC, CA
He on the other hand had the right to quote me since he’s the original word to my paraphrasing. :D
 

ModRQC

Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
460
Reaction score
439
Location
QC, CA
So I received my King Home Stone K-45 and used it last night .
Do I need to completely dry it before re-use ?
The following is from the Korin website and looking for clarification . Thanks .

Knife Sharpening Guide: A How-to | KORIN

"Stones can be fragile and should never be over-soaked. Over-soaking will decrease the stone’s quality and make sharpening more difficult. After sharpening, wipe clean and allow to air dry. It is preferable to store stones in a dry towel."
Make sure it's rinsed and properly dry when you're done with it, before storing it away. If you need to use it again before it's completely dry, just follow the normal soaking procedure as if it was dry.
 

Bobby2shots

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 8, 2019
Messages
74
Reaction score
40
Location
Lachute Quebec
As a beginner I have a question. What happens if I go like 800+3k+Strop on Victorinox or same kind of knives instead of only 1k stone? Can somebody explain it to me?
demirtasem,

Your question is too general to answer effectively. The "theoretical answer" is easy,,,,, but it would be far better to know precisely what you want to achieve,,, and that starts with knowing precisely what's "wrong" with your knife's present status,,,for example; is your knife almost brand new, and not cutting quite as well as it originally was? or,,,, are we talking about a knife that's been honed many times, and despite the re-honing, the knife still does not cut well? or,,,, is there visible deterioration of the cutting edge? Any one of those scenarios requires a different approach, and keeping it simple, or minimalistic,,,, is always best in my opinion. The last thing you want (or need), is to remove more metal than the situation calls for. If you "must" sharpen, then do so, but it should be considered as a last resort.

The "progression" that you mentioned (800/3k/strop), is fine,,,, but you can also get by with a concrete patio block,,,,,,.if you had to. It all boils down to how much time you're willing to spend at each stage of sharpening process to achieve the results you're looking for. Knowing how much, (or how litlle) pressure you need to apply through the various stages, is probably as important, if not more important, than the grit of abrasive you choose. You also want to think of what type of edge would best suit your needs,,, for example,,, you wouldn't want to sharpen an edge that's used primarily for chopping, in the same manner as an edge that's used primarily for slicing/carving.

Getting back to your 800/3k/strop suggestion,,,, the 800 stone might be fine as a starting point if there is very little if any visible damage to the cutting edge. A good 400 grit stone might be a better (and quicker) choice for rebuilding a visibly damaged edge. Starting on an 800 grit stone might be fine if the blade looks fine (little or no visible damage), but can't be brought back to "like-new" condition with a proper honing/feathering.
 

demirtasem

Active Member
Joined
May 16, 2020
Messages
39
Reaction score
8
Location
USA
Wow... Thank you so much for your answer.

Sorry for my general questions but as far as I deep dive in the threads, I see how 'dull' I am and need to sharpen for specific questions. :) I wish there will be a book for dummies like me to tell sharpening basics 101 according to our needs.


are we talking about a knife that's been honed many times, and despite the re-honing, the knife still does not cut well? or,,,, is there visible deterioration of the cutting edge?
My problems occur mostly those two problems that you mentioned.

You also want to think of what type of edge would best suit your needs,,, for example,,, you wouldn't want to sharpen an edge that's used primarily for chopping, in the same manner as an edge that's used primarily for slicing/carving.
Well, I can call my self mostly slicer and rocker. But I don't know the way I need to sharpen the edge according to those information.
 
2
Top