Ideal Honesuki Specs

[OwlWoodworks]

The recent honesuki thread has got me thinking quite a bit about these unique knives and considering getting a custom. I have taken a honesuki butchery class at knifewear so I am familiar with how to use them. However I’m curious what the forum feels are the best specs for an all-around great honesuki. For example, if I were to look at the popular gyutos here on kkf, (Yanick, Fujiyama etc), it would be safe to say that a 240/55/3-4 would be a size of knife that would be largely liked and you could do no wrong getting.

What do you think the specs are for a great all around honesuki?

 

[HumbleHomeCook]

I don't have a lot of variety experience. In fact I have exactly two experience.

So take this for what it is.

My Masakane is 150/44ish and has virtually no neck with a western handle. I think this would be pretty representative of a lot of offerings give or take a couple millimeters here and there. The spine is ~2mm at the handle which provides plenty of rigidity for such a squat knife. Works great and like I said, I think falls in that kinda classic size and style you often see.

My Matt Sicard is 165/40ish with a neck and wa cherry handle (fully sealed). Spine is also around 2mm at the handle and equal stout. The shorter height doesn't bother me in the slightest and gives the knife sort of a honesuki/sujihiki hybrid feel that I personally love. A heavy right-hand bias grind and crisp (just shy of sharp) spine edges were a must for me. I went 165 to give me a bit more knife for doing turkeys and get some utility function out of it as well. Works great on turkeys without feeling too long for chickens. Since Matt and I designed my petty, I don't really use the honesuki for utility work much now but I did in the beginning. I think a 150 in this same configuration would be great as well.

For me, the Sicard is ideal but that's one because we designed it together and to my desires and two for factors beyond just dimensions. It is light and feels wonderfully nimble in use despite the longer blade. The mono cherry wa handle lends to that and having it fully sealed vs oil or wax, I don't have to fret washing it. Then like I said, the grind and details and the mono 52100 blade all come together to make it awesome for me.

I don't know how much that helps you but I guess the moral of my story is, consider more than just size.

Maybe pickup an inexpensive one, use it for a bit and then begin drawing conclusions for yourself?

 

[daveb]

I did not see the edge bevels addressed in the first thread and it certainly merits some attention.

My Yoshi is a true single bevel with ura. I have seen various bevel configurations that include the single, 100/0 (no ura), 90/10, 70/30 and symmetrical. I can see the value of the single, the flat 100/0 and the 90/10. Not sure why one would do a 70/30 or symmetrical - seems like a robust petty would be just as serviceable.

Most of the "fancy" places I've worked, we removed the rib bones when breaking the chickens down. The single was nice there. A 70/30 Misono (first honesuki) was not so much.

 

[Pie]

155/45/……5 or 6. Beeeefy. Single bevel (with ura) ground to zero. No more am I interested in taking down a full mm of bevel just to start tuning.

I’d kind of like a deeper k tip (less pointy, more chunky) and less belly.

The goal would be overall max durability with the a stock edge you can grind to your liking.

 

[OwlWoodworks]

Thanks everyone, this has already given me a ton to go off of and plenty to think about which is excellent.

 

[tgfencer]

The above suggestions are pretty standard. Just one thing to keep in mind is whether you think you will use the heel. A lot of honesuki work is with the tip and final third (just like most boning knives), but one of my old coworkers used a honesuki for chicken and he liked using the heel for breaking down whole chicken legs and wings into their smaller pieces after separating them from the frame. If you think you might be similar, then a heel height closer to 50mm is useful, otherwise you risk knocking your knuckles.

As for bevels, I'm with Dave. Either single bevel or very close to single, otherwise I'd actually just go with a normal boning knife or even a hankotsu.

 

[blokey]

Anyone want to try this and report back?

JCK Original Kagayaki Basic Series KG-19 Mighty Boning Knife 190mm (Garasuki, 7.4 inch)

Classic designs made to high quality standards using VG-1 Japanese stainless steel. This Deba is equally recommended to first-time users and serious users.

japanesechefsknife.com

 

[Valery]

Owning a Yanagiba from Andrey Markin, I realized that this is the most favorite knife in terms of its repair. The angle of descent is 14 degrees and the supply of the cutting edge is 30 degrees. The hardening of steel was 64, and when sharpening to 28, as it was originally, jams formed from the salmon ribs. It got better at 30 degrees. But how it will work for Honensuki on chicken - I have no idea.

 

[OwlWoodworks]

The above suggestions are pretty standard. Just one thing to keep in mind is whether you think you will use the heel. A lot of honesuki work is with the tip and final third (just like most boning knives), but one of my old coworkers used a honesuki for chicken and he liked using the heel for breaking down whole chicken legs and wings into their smaller pieces after separating them from the frame. If you think you might be similar, then a heel height closer to 50mm is useful, otherwise you risk knocking your knuckles.

As for bevels, I'm with Dave. Either single bevel or very close to single, otherwise I'd actually just go with a normal boning knife or even a hankotsu.

I absolutely use the heel so bringing the height up around 50 makes a lot of sense, thank you. And yea I’m almost definitely gonna go single bevel. Of the ones I used, the single bevel were my favourites by far.

 

[tgfencer]

I absolutely use the heel so bringing the height up around 50 makes a lot of sense, thank you. And yea I’m almost definitely gonna go single bevel. Of the ones I used, the single bevel were my favourites by far.

Yeah, that's why I prefer with garasuki. Most are around 50mm in height and I don't mind the extra length. They feel very natural to me, whereas honesuki don't.

 

[Benuser]

A 70/30 Misono (first honesuki) was not so much.

I don't know what has happened to that Misono Honesuki, but they certainly don't come as 70/30 OOTB. We may discuss whether it is 90/10 or 95/5. There is a left bevel, but the edge isn't that much centered as with e.g. Misono gyutos. Their Honesuki and, for the matter, Hankotsu have almost a chisel grind.

Now, there is a problem with all Misono's factory edges. Due to excessive buffing, they are overly convexed and weak. I certainly love convexed bevels, but these end at far too high an angle. They need sharpening OOTB, but reproducing the factory edge is no good idea. There is no reason though to move the edge as seems to have been done with the one you handled.

 

[daveb]

One data point, new from Korin, several years ago.

I would not discourage any one from trying one - most any Misono is a good value.

 

[DitmasPork]

The recent honesuki thread has got me thinking quite a bit about these unique knives and considering getting a custom. I have taken a honesuki butchery class at knifewear so I am familiar with how to use them. However I’m curious what the forum feels are the best specs for an all-around great honesuki. For example, if I were to look at the popular gyutos here on kkf, (Yanick, Fujiyama etc), it would be safe to say that a 240/55/3-4 would be a size of knife that would be largely liked and you could do no wrong getting.

What do you think the specs are for a great all around honesuki?

The Misono honesuki specs are idea for me, probably get something similar—will maybe a wa handle—if I ever went custom.

IMHO, when you mentioned gyutos—"popular gyutos here on kkf," doesn't always mean "ideal." Much depends on personal preferences. To me tastes, 240 x 55 is too long and tall for me—preferring 225 x 49–53, everyone has their comfort zones.

 

[Jovidah]

Yeah good point. If I really wanted to investigate this further I'd probably just go buy the whole series of Masahiro Bessaku; the 150 honesuki, the 180 honesuki and the 180 garasuki, just to see what actually floats my boat. But for the couple of birds and legs I debone each month it's just not worth it to me...

 

[Qapla']

Deleted.

 

[DitmasPork]

Yeah good point. If I really wanted to investigate this further I'd probably just go buy the whole series of Masahiro Bessaku; the 150 honesuki, the 180 honesuki and the 180 garasuki, just to see what actually floats my boat. But for the couple of birds and legs I debone each month it's just not worth it to me...

Really impressed by the Bessaku price point.