Ideas to make bitter greens more palatable

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If wild animals can survive alone on meat, is that because they're eating other nutritionally complete wild animals that eat wild plants? One thing I heard recently, the goat that makes Greek feta has a diet of 5,000+ plants. Wild animals will taste better, perhaps needing older ways of combining more herbs & spices.
The trick is to eat the entire animal. Organs, offal... not just the muscle fiber (as we tend to do now in a lot of places). There were actually a bunch of guys who tested it like a 100 years ago, surviving a full year on nothing but meat without any health issues. But they did eat all the organ meat too. Otherwise you'll run into issues.
 
Also stay away from industrially/mass produced meat and farmed fish. No GMO veggies and anything wheat/corn based.

Although I agree with Doom that we're here for a good time, not a long time so my Krispy Kreme box for dinner is nothing to scoff at ;) furthermore, the less humans on this planet the better off the natural world is, so I applaud people for eating fast food and chainsmoking cigarettes on a daily basis, keep on keepin on, people!
 
@paka Spinach and Rhubarb, when raw, have enough oxalic acid to be toxic ... native forms of lettuce are said to sometimes be so high in alkaloids that they can give you a high... and you have your betel leaves, right?

@Chef doom, paka you both bring bright light to this world - though some might regard that light as punishingly bright and blinding :)

With global warming, we can expect thai and south indian food becoming more and more popular - it is such good food for hot days.

I have been curious about oxalic acid, more about I think it binds to calcium and inhibits absorption? I recall it might relate to other varieties of amaranthus besides spinach, though some are high enough it might matter less, and I think it was in taro leaves which I had considered then decided to not seek out. How much does the oxalic acid matter if one cooks it and combines with other spices? Don't know. They say brassica affects the thyroid if one is low on iodine. Considering all possible foods, there's a complex interaction that we're quite unaware of, that those that had millennia to experiement figured out fairly well or quite well. Traditional cultures already knew some of the best available or common foods such as dark colored rice, corn, millet, and other grains, amla fruit (phyllanthus emblica), or whatever tended to be much better in any category of grain, vegetable, legume, herb, spice, nuts, seeds and meat, and their properties and effects such as cooling, warming, light or heavy, and how to combine. Some say eating enough amla itself adds 20 years. Allium (garlic/onions) has been shown to increase zinc & iron absorption and aid somehow in dealing with the useful and also anti-nutrient phytates. We also have started to think seasonally, but not for every single ingredient we consume, and considering what season, in what quantity, ratio, interval, etc. to eat or avoid, plus how the tastes of bitter, sour, sweet, pungent, astringent, am I missing something, should also be considered as such.

As for as global warming, too I have been wondering why capsicum/chili became popular in the tropics. Some say the induced sweat is not enough to cool. (Long?) pepper was primarily used before the introduction of capsicum. In that case, unsure. Besides considered more longevity-promoting than black, maybe heat was part of it. Pepper doesn't seem to have enough antioxidants to slow oxidation and spoiling in the tropics. It does increase absorption of turmeric, numerous herbs, and possibly all foods. Of so far studied nutrients that protect against sun damage, lycopene dwarfs beta carotine. That may partially expain the adoption of capsicium and tomato. Wish I could more easily find red carrots. Something in tamarind has also been noted in some way though don't know how it compares.

The trick is to eat the entire animal. Organs, offal... not just the muscle fiber (as we tend to do now in a lot of places). There were actually a bunch of guys who tested it like a 100 years ago, surviving a full year on nothing but meat without any health issues. But they did eat all the organ meat too. Otherwise you'll run into issues.

Indeed the whole animal, or knowing which parts to eat when needed. I think there's more to it. There are enough studies showing effects in humans, various nutrients accumulating in various parts of the body, that I think every animal part is better in particular wild animals that eat wild plants. Besides the mentioned lycopene, a different nutrient protects the eyes and are absorbed by them: lutein/zeaxanthin. How do all other animals likely have no eye decay without need for sunglasses? Herbivores greens. If carnivores are not eating eyes, maybe the main source would be blood and organs, and digestive organs. Different Indian works specify only certain wild or desert animals can be eaten regularly, preferably considering the moment, season, their diet, location, etc. Yet so far, enough of the plant-based doctors say so, and traditional texts often suggest a diet of mostly plants is best. After long hybridization, we just have a pale selection of what's available. Wherever we are, in the fields, mountains, looking up in the trees, sky, in the waters, food is everywhere.

As for animal products, after a century or more of industialization, perhaps no where is unpolluted. Of all the chemicals everywhere, such as what we breath in at any time, hundreds have been found already present in us, many cancer-risk increasing, with the worst tested place California. As it bioaccumulates in animal fat in higher levels, at least some or many, and many are more absorbed when consumed from animals, so despite whatever amount of milk or meat might be helpful, I tend to avoid it.
 
Bitter Melon is healthy Okinawans eat quite a bit. A Filipino cook turned me on Pork, ginger, onions, tomato & bitter melon. After a while came to like it.

Americans are used to eating food made in taste test labs in New Jersey. Too much sugar. Prefer fresh herbs & vegetables. Like vinegar kosher dill pickles. Hate sweet pickles taste like crap.

The only reason English speaking white people have good food is because of the brown people living in their countries.
 
I need to look through 18th-19th century American writings. There's mention of shepherd's purse; I recall Jefferson having a variety of radishes. There was once perhaps thousands of varieties of corn. The food industry maybe started there, or at least more quickly hyperdeveloped and now little is natural. Some common traditional plants like chicory and dandelion are still known but very few. Unsure if any early Americans left behind detailed farming and diet records.

Indians and everyone else aren't doing well either. Hybridized and other low nutrient vegetables: peas, green beans, cauliflower, potato, okra, maybe taro, modern? varieties of eggplant, and who knows what else. In larger cities, maybe lack of leaves of common taro, bitter melon, orka, yam, etc.. Where did the heavy and all-season round use of ghee and oil come from, Court cuisine?
 
I need to look through 18th-19th century American writings. There's mention of shepherd's purse; I recall Jefferson having a variety of radishes. There was once perhaps thousands of varieties of corn. The food industry maybe started there, or at least more quickly hyperdeveloped and now little is natural. Some common traditional plants like chicory and dandelion are still known but very few. Unsure if any early Americans left behind detailed farming and diet records.

Indians and everyone else aren't doing well either. Hybridized and other low nutrient vegetables: peas, green beans, cauliflower, potato, okra, maybe taro, modern? varieties of eggplant, and who knows what else. In larger cities, maybe lack of leaves of common taro, bitter melon, orka, yam, etc.. Where did the heavy and all-season round use of ghee and oil come from, Court cuisine?

Not to rain on your parade, but domestification of plants / crops, and things such as seed selection started far earlier. As in...thousands of years B.C. The green revolution and industrialization might have brought stuff to the next level in the last hundreds of years, but it's only a continuation of a process that was already happening from the moment people started settling down and practising agriculture.

I agree on your earlier point that there is some effect of an animal's nutrition on the nutritional value of the meat; for example grass-fed cows tend to have higher levels of omega-3 fats, and farmed salmon are actively fed supplements to boost their omega-3 fat content which would otehrwise be lacking. It's also something you can often taste... in unpasteurized cheeses you really can taste the diet of the cow, and for example taste a difference between cows that have been grazing fresh grass or fed for example grain.

But this isn't 'exclusive' knowledge hidden by food industries... the main issue though is that the understanding of dietary influences is still rather limited, and scientists are still unsure about what is 'best'. I'd also be cautious about going down a 'ancient knowledge is better' path. Life expectancy in a lot of cases was lower than it is now. Sure there might be a few hidden gems in there where people had the right idea, but that doesn't mean there isn't a lot of ********, bogus and outright dangerous stuff in there as well.
 
Indeed domestication began much earlier. I don't know specifics, I vaguely recall cabbage and perhaps other things from Rome & Greece. But there seems to have been a much greater variety before the recent food industry, or at least more than now knew of and grew wild varieties or took part in breeding themselves. It's maybe mainly the growth of city life and increased reliance on markets, however it developed, from old local stores, old forms of farmer's markets, to supermarkets, that we slowly narrowed variety, with most of it recent.

Trying to a few varieties of rice used millennia ago, grown only in certain regions of India. One's available, the other only starting to look.

I don't know what hope there is of wild plants becoming known again. They grow everywhere; some or a fair amount of farmers know of at least some eaten varieties. Smaller farmers may eat some themselves. In my area, I can only find a few like nettle and rarely lamb's quarters. Amaranth are all the non bitter varieties that East-Asians eat, worse than lamb's quarters. Wild radish, curly dock, and few I've been able to get from every week asking one guy for months for wild. As there's many Indians in the area, such plants are selling well enough for him to continue to pick them. There is a case of breeding for more nutrients: Monsanto has a variety of broccoli, meant to be more anti-cancerous. I'd guess more glucosinolates with a slightly more peppery taste. If Monsanto in some decade finds the anti-GMO backlash strong enough that they need to profit in another way, maybe that kind of breeding will continue. They and no one else seems to so far just try to bring back wild seeds themselves. I don't know how well that broccoli is doing in popularity or distribution. If at farmers markets, when I find other parts of common plants, and I always get asked how do you cook them, sauté?, the average person seems to not be able to just take a random plant or part, of whatever taste and make something with it, any change is gonna be slow. Plant-based doctors sometimes say the nutrition of wild is much higher but they're not doing anything to encourage use; studies are rare and doctors are trying to just get people to eat more plants of any kind.
 
Enjoyed this thread, even the videos.

A year ago I tried making karela in a north Indian style. It sucked..tasted lousy and made me physically ill. It wasnt the spicing or something that could be tweaked. It was irrecoverably bad.

I wouldnt say it ever was delicious, but I've had decent. Any suggestions on how to prepare?
 
@paka healthy or not, "broccoli" means "let's make pakora" to me :)

BTW, is it true that the hindi word for eggplant means "nothing much, actually"? I always feel reminded of it when seeing the eggplants normally on sale here in europe - they are so big that a well presented pan of stuffed eggplants (arranged in a circle pattern) would need a 60cm diameter kadai, but they really don't taste of much (what do people do with these - they do not make good fish fragrant eggplant, not good masala stuffed eggplant, a bharta I tried also ended up disappointing) ... whereas you only get great thai and japanese style eggplants at specialty grocers.

I am actually glad that you can even get taro root and occasionally cassava and raw bamboo shoots here, given these things can be somewhat unsafe if prepared wrong....
 
A year ago I tried making karela in a north Indian style. It sucked..tasted lousy and made me physically ill. It wasnt the spicing or something that could be tweaked. It was irrecoverably bad.

I wouldnt say it ever was delicious, but I've had decent. Any suggestions on how to prepare?
Actually I don't really even like bitter melon that much. :) I cook it somewhat often but mainly in some mixed vegetable sambar like dish and always with more of other vegetables. Some book on aphrodisiacs mentioned bitter melon seeds and I have been curious about that.

The usual ingredients of fat, sour (tamarind, pomegrante powder, mango powder [amchur]), and sweet should help. I've seen more than a few recipes that use sugar and also soak bitter melon in salt water for several hours. Some recipes also fry the bitter melon. If you're cooking a dish with a significant amount of bitter melon, I think the salting and/or non-vegetarian addition of meat are likely the best ways of reducing bitterness.

BTW, is it true that the hindi word for eggplant means "nothing much, actually"?
I'm not Indian so I'm not sure. :) I think eggplant is mentioned in some histories of Indian cuisine but not in classical medical texts. I do eat it though in lower quantities of other vegetables. About eggplant and nightshades, I have been investigating that recently because of the nightshade question. Potatoes, except for purple, look to be not great. It's possible other nightshades such as tomatoes have enough antioxidants to make the overall benefit greater than any harmful effects, plus less glycoalkaloids than potatoes. I've been wondering since the mentioned black nightshade, is a highly valued ancient vegetable though now seemingly only more frequently used in South India.

I am actually glad that you can even get taro root and occasionally cassava and raw bamboo shoots here, given these things can be somewhat unsafe if prepared wrong....
If you can find taro leaves, that might be worth eating. For same reason as needing to cook them, the leaves seem rather high in oxalates though unsure how it compares with other foods. I've been investigating the identity of ancient Indian yams which I think are also high in oxalates. Taro leaves look to be worth eating more so than roots. I think I remember seeing them in Filipino markets, once when I used to live close by many of them.
 
YMMV... but... there might be something in raisins and sour mango that balances bitterness ... tried an obscure recipe for a boiled fenugreek seed & raisin condiment, and while it is really unpalatable bitter before the raisins and amchur are added, it is still bitter but in an "interesting. might work as a condiment if used in moderation" manner... and I see some karela recipes also have raisins added. Another post suggests trying raisins with spinach. I doubt it is just sugar at work here...
 
Hasn't the whole thread been about combing with tastes such as sour and sweet? :) I have used raisins, grapes, or dates occassionally and that's a good idea to try them more often. In Indian medicine, grapes are noted for also having the taste of slight pungency (depending on variety I'd assume) while mango is noted as also being pungent and astringent.

Someday I need to investigate studies on karela. The primary reason for me favoring bitterness is calcium. Cultivated plants tend to have very low levels. Karela has been noted at around 300 mg per 100 g, higher but not highest of foods you can find in ethnic markets, but (now called wild) leaves range up to, so far that I've found, 900+ mg. The RDA/RDI of recommendated nutrients may not be ideal but to get all of it in one meal, I've had to change my diet to include a fair amount of wild leaves or other not typically consumed parts of cultivated plants that take some work to find, so that I can consume only one meal plus snacks of fruits, nuts, and seeds. The bitter tannins and other substances in karela may have some beneficial effect but for now, I stick with other leaves that too are bitter but in a manner more pleasant.
 
One articles suggest poppy seeds are rich in calcium ... so maybe feasting on white mughlai gravies and german poppyseed cake isn't so bad an idea :)
 
I haven't used poppy much but it's up there on the list of experiments todo. Each time I've gotten some in the past, I've used it a few times then left the spice to sit. Study of plants, the ones most valued by various cultures, their qualities and nutrients goes on. 1000 mg of calcium is possible from maybe 50-60 calories but my scale changes as I find better, not knowing the upper limit.

If I were in Germany, I might be tempted by the cakes. Though since that's the word used in one of the translations, when I hear it I now think kama sutra recipes. :)
 
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