Ikeda or Fujiwara

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ChefDan96

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Hi so I've narrowed my options down between 2 knives ones made by Ikeda and comes in more expensive it's made of blue #1 with a Damascus finish and ebony handle and the other option is a fujiwara denka full custom direct from Japan with a maboroshi finish instead of ku and a custom handle the price difference sees the Ikeda coming in at around £50 more. Anyone with experience of Ikeda? I know fujiwara used to have f+f issues that doesn't matter to me since I'm used to traditional Japanese knives from work and my personal ones in the past which I've put work into, fujiwara would be a yo handle and if I go that option they'll be making one for me which would take a month. What would be the better all around option for a gyuto used daily on everything fish, meat and veg... The only blue #1 I've ever used is my Murata buho.. I have experience with white 1/2 blue 2 and blue super.
 

Lucien

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Assuming we are talking about gyuto here - Ikeda is very laserish and light with a relatively short heel, so unless you are into such a profile, go for TF
 

ChefDan96

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Assuming we are talking about gyuto here - Ikeda is very laserish and light with a relatively short heel, so unless you are into such a profile, go for TF
Lazer or workhorse is fine for me but heel height is something important... This stupid site that sells them doesn't put the height.. I'm guessing this is why 😅
 

Lucien

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Lazer or workhorse is fine for me but heel height is something important... This stupid site that sells them doesn't put the height.. I'm guessing this is why 😅
I love Ikeda's single bevels - they are great performers with outstanding f&f. However I am not a fan of his gyuto....
 

ChefDan96

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I love Ikeda's single bevels - they are great performers with outstanding f&f. However I am not a fan of his gyuto....
Yeah it's a gyuto I'd be looking at I think I'll go the TF custom route and rehandle it and save the cash over the Ikeda blue 1 in it wouldn't ever perform like the TF blue super anyway.. Unless I win the lottery and buy a Shoichi 😂😂
 

tostadas

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TF heel heights vary quite a bit. I've seen 240's range from 48-57, so definitely check with the seller if you're after something specific. I guess if you go custom route, you can always specify.
 

ChefDan96

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Makes me think Ill get to checking the heights of my blades now.. 49mm on the 240 and 45mm on the santoku.. I think perfect for me would be something around a 47 on 210 but with a large flat spot at the back for push slicing... And cutting matchsticks without rocking anywhere.... Like a 210 santoku back end and a gentle sweep at the front... 🤔🤔🤔 In blue super
 

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Makes me think Ill get to checking the heights of my blades now.. 49mm on the 240 and 45mm on the santoku.. I think perfect for me would be something around a 47 on 210 but with a large flat spot at the back for push slicing... And cutting matchsticks without rocking anywhere.... Like a 210 santoku back end and a gentle sweep at the front... 🤔🤔🤔 In blue super
Sounds like exactly what I have but in a 197 edge length. Personally I like the Kurouchi skin.... A LOT
 

ChefDan96

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Sounds like exactly what I have but in a 197 edge length. Personally I like the Kurouchi skin.... A LOT
Damn you can put porn on this site 😮😮 I like it but I was told it was one that wears away over time and I had thoughts as to if it would add drag to cuts? The ones I've had with ku before... Non TF after lightly sanding the ku off with 1000 then 5000 grit sandpaper cut better through food.. Also figured if I did thin it that the ku wearing away would look a bit rough if spots are missing vs the mab finish that I could polish.. That profile looks fantastic to me!
 

nakiriknaifuwaifu

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Damn you can put porn on this site 😮😮 I like it but I was told it was one that wears away over time and I had thoughts as to if it would add drag to cuts? The ones I've had with ku before... Non TF after lightly sanding the ku off with 1000 then 5000 grit sandpaper cut better through food.. Also figured if I did thin it that the ku wearing away would look a bit rough if spots are missing vs the mab finish that I could polish.. That profile looks fantastic to me!
For what it's worth, it's a fake KU (because it's stainless clad). I am trying to make the term "pickled KU" a thing for stainless clad KU knives because of the weird treatments they do to make a KU layer form on stainless steel.
 

bruce8088

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tf ku on their stainless clad is almost drag free imo, very smooth and quite durable unless you take something abrasive to it.
 

Corradobrit1

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Damn you can put porn on this site 😮😮 I like it but I was told it was one that wears away over time and I had thoughts as to if it would add drag to cuts? The ones I've had with ku before... Non TF after lightly sanding the ku off with 1000 then 5000 grit sandpaper cut better through food.. Also figured if I did thin it that the ku wearing away would look a bit rough if spots are missing vs the mab finish that I could polish.. That profile looks fantastic to me!
The TF KU is very stable. I have 4 year old Denka that's used daily and the Ku hasn't changed one iota. Virtually no drag and the finish is smooth and semi-gloss.
 

Corradobrit1

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For what it's worth, it's a fake KU (because it's stainless clad). I am trying to make the term "pickled KU" a thing for stainless clad KU knives because of the weird treatments they do to make a KU layer form on stainless steel.
Not sure what you mean by 'fake ku'. Its formed in the furnace and then undergoes a pickling process. For me fake Ku is one thats applied like a paint.
 

ChefDan96

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For what it's worth, it's a fake KU (because it's stainless clad). I am trying to make the term "pickled KU" a thing for stainless clad KU knives because of the weird treatments they do to make a KU layer form on stainless steel.
My favourite ku look is the Anryu AS Gyutos those things look fancy 🥵 I'm thinking if it's stainless and as I can shine that ***** like a diamond then beat the crap out of it. A lot of the cooking I do these days if front and centre in front of people and private chef work so I'm looking for a workhorse that'll also make people look twice 😂 gotta show off a little when Chef Allan walks in with his Kato
 

tcmx3

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all of the kurouchi is above the grind anyway.

if you are concerned about "drag", which frankly is a non-issue, I'd be looking at refinishing the bevels, as I do actually find that a higher grit finish can help there, but that's a big project.

no offense mate but what knife "normie" is gonna look at a very rustic denka and be blown away? buy a zkramer for 300 bucks or whatever if you care about appearances.

also the two knives youre looking at have nothing in common except having well known smiths. at this point you might as well just go on the Cleancut website and sort by: price descending.

I can also say with zero irony or sarcasm that I would definitely pick denka over Ikeda. and neither of these knives are "workhorses" if that's what you want go buy a Shi.Han. Ticks all the boxes for you; incredible smith, unbeatable looks, actual workhorse grind, and he'll make you what you want if youre reasonable about it. oh and it's expensive, which you seem to want, although sadly despite how much you get he "only" charges like 500 for a 210.
 

Corradobrit1

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You can see remnants of the forge Ku on many Mabs like this one
 

Corradobrit1

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Well shi han comes in at a full 100 more for 52100 🤣🤣 I've got a hacksaw made out of 52100 wonder if I can charge £480 for it too 🤔 52100 is a very cheap steel used by people who aren't very good.. Its very easy to heat treat etc there's way less skill in that than a blacksmith working with white steel or blue steel from Hitachi so why would spend 100 more on a run of the mill 52100 when I can get a fully handcrafted in house knife I can buy you a 2ft x 1ftx 1ft slab of 52100 for £20 right now and that's including the 20% vat or I could buy Hitachi super blue 1ft x 0.5ft x 1" for £80 not including 20% vat so you see logistics work like this... More expensive steel, better craftsmen costs more money that shi han has what 20p of steel in it? He's making what probably 70 knives out of that £20 fujiwara is getting let's say he gets a good rate he's buying a lot of it after all he's only known for making the best Aogami Super blades in the world say he's getting it for 60 tax included and he's able to make 30 knifes out of it so his blade right away has 10x more money in it minimum just for the steel. Fujiwara is recognised as a master blacksmith where what's shi han? See there's this little thing called time served means you charge more money also I don't know how it works there but here it's a tool for my work and where I come from that's called a tax write off also known as free since I can claim it back in my taxes finally I don't know where you're chefing but over here we get paid well.
I think you need to get some facts straight. Firstly TF IV (pictured on the box) is not involved in making your custom Denka or any other regular off the shelf TF these days. Secondly, Shehan Prull has apprenticed with some of the best makers in Japan, including Hiroshi Ashi (Ashi Hamono) and Mizuno. You are doing his skill and expertise which has been acquired over many, many years working with true traditional artisans, a complete disservice. If he was as bad as you say they would not give him the time of day. He also works with AEBL which also might be considered a ho-hum steel. But funny enough Devin Thomas and Marko Tsourkan (who apprenticed with Devin) work with exactly the same steels, yet their blades are highly coveted and sell immediately. There is more to a knife than the basic steel.
 
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ChefDan96

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I think you need to get some facts straight. Firstly TF IV (pictured on the box) is not involved in making your custom Denka or any other regular off the shelf TF these days. Secondly, Shehan Prull has apprenticed with some of the best makers in Japan, including Hiroshi Ashi (Ashi Hamono) and Mizuno. You are doing his skill and expertise which has been acquired over many, many years working with true traditional artisans, a complete disservice. If he was as bad as you say they would not give him the time of day.
I'm not saying he's not a good blacksmith probably makes a nice blade but working 2 years in Japan is his biggest credit he's not a recognised master he's using a far cheaper inferior steel and is charging more money for it. Regardless of anything else fujiwara uses the most Aogami core in the world its a lot thicker and its hammered more hence its able to take the edge it takes at the hardness its at. If I'm buying a Japanese handmade knife I want it made in Japan using Hitachi steel and its as simple as that to me Hitachi steel is the best and 52100 is pot metal
 

tcmx3

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Sorry correction shi han melts that slab down and is making probably at least a few hundred knives out of it good for him if he's got suckers that want a penny of steel in their knife. Also all you've shown is you're an idiot that somehow hates fujiwara I'm guessing he ****ed your wife or killed your dog because every single thread with his name in it you get yourself sooooo worked up about how **** he is look we get it your wife left you for fujiwara just calm down and accept other people are allowed to have opinions and like different knifes from you. I'll send you the number to a therapist that can help you get over your anger for fujiwara that makes you personally attack anyone that owns one or wants to own one
fun fact I own more TF knives than you and even if you bought more than 1 I would own more than you.

btw for the peanut gallery when I make the statement that some people who buy these knives seem invest their entire self worth into it, this is what Im talking about.
 

Corradobrit1

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I'm not saying he's not a good blacksmith probably makes a nice blade but working 2 years in Japan is his biggest credit he's not a recognised master he's using a far cheaper inferior steel and is charging more money for it. Regardless of anything else fujiwara uses the most Aogami core in the world its a lot thicker and its hammered more hence its able to take the edge it takes at the hardness its at. If I'm buying a Japanese handmade knife I want it made in Japan using Hitachi steel and its as simple as that to me Hitachi steel is the best and 52100 is pot metal
Yet Devin Thomas and Tsourkan can ask $500+ for lowly 52100 and AEBL and they have a buying frenzy on their hands. Like I said don't just look at the cost of the raw materials. Thats a minor part of the equation.
 

nakiriknaifuwaifu

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fun fact I own more TF knives than you and even if you bought more than 1 I would own more than you.

btw for the peanut gallery when I make the statement that some people who buy these knives seem invest their entire self worth into it, this is what Im talking about.
Can I do you a favor and take them off of your hands since you hate them so much, then? I'll even pay you less than they're worth!
 

McMan

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I can buy a Tsourkan gyuto right now this second brand new for £237 a devin Thomas for £330 both of which are by far cheaper than shi hans 480 of the same steel I also don't know who they are but their blades look nicer for the lower cost
Links to the Marko and DT?
 

tcmx3

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Can I do you a favor and take them off of your hands since you hate them so much, then? I'll even pay you less than they're worth!
if you're really interested in taking one off me we can discuss how much I charge for my hourly labor and the cost of the equipment used.
 

WiriWiri

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I’d like them links too. I’m clearly lacking access to the BST secret forum to these temptingly priced knives available in the UK

Let me in, you gits.
 
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