Inexpensive knife for specific meat cutting - sausage making

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J

JWK1

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I have been making a lot of sausage in the last couple of years, so I have going through a lot of pork shoulder roasts. In my search to get a better grind, I kind of stumbled on a technique that started as a way of grinding the fat up better, then found I could use the silver skin (really adds a nice touch with all that collagen). Then I realized I was getting almost half of the roast almost completely prepared without grinding.

It is simply this: I cross hatch slices between 1/8 and 1/4 inch wide, then go on the diagonal to those lines, 90 degrees to those lines, etc. Then I started to slice at a 45 degree angle to all of that and found this beautiful cut grind coming off. That's the simple description of what I do. My technique and productivity increases every time I make a batch.

I'm looking for a better tool for the job. Right now I'm using a 210mm Kanehide PS60 gyuto. It works pretty well, but one thing I'm sure about is that I would like a 240mm. Almost all slices are done with a pull.

So for those cooks with a ton more experience than me regarding meat slicing, do you have suggestions for a beater knife? For right now, I don't care what kind of metal (though I would prefer carbon, but not a big deal), I don't care about what kind of handle and I don't care about what it looks like. I'm looking for the best type, profile, thickness, etc.

Knives I'm considering: Masahiro (both mv and virgin carbon), Misono (both dragon and moly), Fujiwara FKH, even considering a Forschner 10" chef knife. Maybe some other type than a gyuto/chef?

Any thoughts appreciated.
 
Gyuto or suji? More or less bite — coarser or finer grain? In case of a suji: is some flexibility acceptable?
 
A gyuto is fairly wide from edge to spine. Are you having any trouble with space being tight for moving your knife around the more cramped or tricky spots?
 
I would go for a low-height blade. Something like this Wüsthof 12" salmon slicer could work rather well, I think.
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That knife is seriously sharp out of the box, and things don't stick to it much due to the low height. I use this knife regularly not just for salmon, but also to cut really thin slices of beef for making jerky.
 
(Are all of us talking about cutting bone-in pork shoulder to make sausages? Or did I miss something along the way?)
 
Noodle Soup said:
Anything Victorniox. They are still the first choice of pro butchers.
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My son in law processes game for himself and his family/friends, to include sausage making. I got him this kit and he absolutely loves it:

Check this out:Field Dressing Kit

Not sure I fully understand the OP's technique description but perhaps one of these blades will interest him.
 
That is a lot of knife work when the grinder will do it for you, I just cut chunks and feed them to the grinder.
 
Bodine said:
That is a lot of knife work when the grinder will do it for you, I just cut chunks and feed them to the grinder.
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Maybe the cutting compensates for a grinder that isn't working perfectly.
 
Wahnamhong said:
Budget?
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Yes, I forgot to post that for now, I'm looking for the most inexpensive blade. I'm trying to find the best type of blade. I don't even know if I will want to upgrade. It's a single purpose tool.
Benuser said:
Gyuto or suji? More or less bite — coarser or finer grain? In case of a suji: is some flexibility acceptable?
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Well, I'm inexperienced in this area. Whatever does the best job of slicing raw meat in a very precise, thin way. I think some flexibility would not be a detriment.
DavidPF said:
A gyuto is fairly wide from edge to spine. Are you having any trouble with space being tight for moving your knife around the more cramped or tricky spots?
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No, I debone the pork shoulder roast (pork butt) before I begin. There are no cramped or tricky spots. I have no space restrictions on my board
Michi said:
I would go for a low-height blade. Something like this Wüsthof 12" salmon slicer could work rather well, I think.
View attachment 108191

That knife is seriously sharp out of the box, and things don't stick to it much due to the low height. I use this knife regularly not just for salmon, but also to cut really thin slices of beef for making jerky.
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That type of knife could work. The only thing that would concern me is getting a perfectly vertical slice every time. When I don't make my slices perfectly parallel to each other, thin slices of meat will come out of the roast. That really slows things down. The whole idea is to create very thin slices that are still attached until you have at least made two series of slices at 90 degrees to each other. A video would make this very clear, but I have no way of doing that right now. In any case, the gyuto helps me visually see that the blade is vertical or 90 degrees to my cutting surface. However, that type of blade might do so much better I would just have to increase my skills.
TB_London said:
Big ODC would seem fit the bill
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I don't know what an ODC is.
DavidPF said:
(Are all of us talking about cutting bone-in pork shoulder to make sausages? Or did I miss something along the way?)
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Yes, bone-in shoulder, whole pork butt, shoulder blade roast. I have seen it called any one of these in different parts of the country (I've lived all over except for the mid-west).
Noodle Soup said:
Anything Victorniox. They are still the first choice of pro butchers.
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I'm thinking more and more along this line.
HumbleHomeCook said:
My son in law processes game for himself and his family/friends, to include sausage making. I got him this kit and he absolutely loves it:

Check this out:Field Dressing Kit

Not sure I fully understand the OP's technique description but perhaps one of these blades will interest him.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'll give more thought to the Victorinox line.
Bodine said:
That is a lot of knife work when the grinder will do it for you, I just cut chunks and feed them to the grinder.
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I have a big manual grinder that I use when I make a lot of sausage at one time. We will get a whole roast that goes 8 or 9 lbs. and sometimes get two when we want to stock up on a certain type of sausage. However, there is a certain point when making smaller amounts, say two or three lbs., where cutting it by hand saves time and work. There is the time needed to cut the meat to get the best grind (in my opinion) and the time needed to clean up the meat grinder. Sometimes I find a couple of pork shoulder blade steaks on sale and can make up about 1.5 lbs. of sausage for dinner that night. I wouldn't even consider getting the grinder out for that. Now there are decent, inexpensive sausage stuffers available that are perfect for 2 lbs. or less. They are small and easy to clean. Now that the wife and I are empty nesters (woo hoo!), I find it more enjoyable making more variety in smaller amounts.

Don't get me wrong. I understand no one does this. I mean, NO ONE. The only references I can find to hand cutting meat for sausage is historical and obscure, "gourmet" chefs (mostly in Europe), and some asian cuisine. However, there is absolutely no info anywhere as to how exactly the meat was cut regarding technique and blade. So I'm on my own to muddle through it all.

I hope that clears things up.
 
Although I'm still strugglign to really envision it well enough to recommend a specific model, if functioning bang for your buck butcher knives are what you are looking for you're really at the right place with Victorinox. I wouldn't be surprised if over half the world's animals were processed into smaller pieces with their knives. They're not pretty, they're not fancy, but for blades that don't break the bank they're a good choice, especially if it's for occasional use. There's a few other brands that make similar utilitarian blades mostly focusing on the meat industry instead of general consumers.

By the way... is it just me or does it sound almost like you're describing of process of basically manually making tartare?
 
It sounds to me (since obviously you're deboning your meat with a different knife) as if this question comes down to "What's a good knife for finely slicing a large chunk of raw boneless pork". Am I missing something important? If I got that part right, I'd think the absolute ideal would be a long, thin, slicing knife (like what @Michi described), but that just about any long sharp non-serrated knife would do the trick.

I would also wonder about the price of getting a better grinder though.
 
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I would consider a Fujiwara Kanefusa FKH carbon steel sujihiki, 270mm.
They have improved a lot. Japanese standards regarding the SK-3 steel have changed and with recent ones I didn't notice the good old sulfur smell they were known for. Fit&Finish decent.
Steel has some bite, isn't as finely grained as the Misono Swedish. No bad thing if you're dealing with fresh meat. Fujiwara Kanefusa FKH Series Sujihiki (240mm and 270mm, 2 sizes)
As the Misono does have some flex some people feel uncomfortable with, the FKH is stiff.
 
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I now realise that for a steak tartare I use a 270 gyuto, no suji. Don't know why. The weight perhaps. You wouldn't go wrong with the FKH 270 gyuto either, by the way. Good knife.
 
McMan said:
Are you using the board?--If so, is knuckle clearance something you're looking for?

If not, some classics:

...
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I'd question butcher knife recommendations, if it's just for finely slicing slabs of boneless meat.
 
dafox said:
How about a $20 cleaver?
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Again sorry, but a cleaver for finely slicing a big piece of boneless meat isn't making sense to me.
(Not that I'm 100% convinced that "Save yourself a lot of work by getting a better grinder instead" might not be a better answer...)
 
I think I get what you’re doing. It’s all on the hump so to speak so after two passes you’re left with something resembling a koosh ball and then you shave them off like shawarma to get tiny cubes? I’d use a cheap kiritsuke or yanagi personally, or a hamokiri would seem to be good as well. Kinda like large scale how you prep ika (squid). I loved using a hefty yanagi for breaking down boneless meat, it’s what I always used portioning shoulder and belly for sausage making. I hand chop fat often for sausage if I’d like larger chunks. Hand chopped tartare does yield a better mouth feel so I get where you’re going. To me single bevels do really good in this world and I find refreshing their edges if need during the work to be really fast based on their construction.
 
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pleue said:
I think I get what you’re doing. It’s all on the hump so to speak so after two passes you’re left with something resembling a koosh ball and then you shave them off like shawarma to get tiny cubes? I’d use a cheap kiritsuke or yanagi personally, or a hamokiri would seem to be good as well. Kinda like large scale how you prep ika (squid). I loved using a hefty yanagi for breaking down boneless meat, it’s what I always used portioning shoulder and belly for sausage making. I hand chop fat often for sausage if I’d like larger chunks. Hand chopped tartare does yield a better mouth feel so I get where you’re going. To me single bevels do really good in this world and I find refreshing their edges if need during the work to be really fast based on their construction.
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Yes! You get what I'm doing. Like a koosh ball, only it's on one plane, not a ball. Yes, the idea after cross cutting is to cut them off to get the proper sized little "cubes" to make the sausage. Yes, the hand cut meat does make a difference in the final product. Whether it is just mouth feel or actual taste, I am accepting as fact that it is different and superior to meat from a grinder. As far as the tartare comparison, it is not cut nearly as fine. If anyone is familiar with sausage making, it is the same "grind" as italian or kielbasa. Much larger pieces than tartare if cut by hand.

I am becoming more interested in the single bevel yanagi type knife for this. One thing I have learned: The more acute the edge and sharp, the better. It does not need to be super polished at all. As some have pointed out, raw meat can be cut with a knife that is a bit "toothy", I guess is the word. I just looked up the Masahiro yanigi knife on Knife Merchants. Not available right now, unfortunately. Too bad - very affordable. However, it is hard for me to know whether the much thicker blade would be a problem cutting into a thick piece of roast rather than slicing off thin pieces from an end of something. Wedging could be a problem.

Thanks for the thoughts!
 
I have this cutting board that I use for making jerky. The frame protrudes by 8 mm above the surface. I put a hunk of meat onto the board and cut with the Wüsthof slicer using the frame as a guide. Then cut it into strips.

The opposite side of the board looks the same, but the frame protrudes by only 5 mm, for thinner slices.
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dafox said:
How about a $20 cleaver?



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I don't know about the cleaver. I would think you would need one without much of a belly. In any case, it gave me some ideas to try out for small portions. Maybe whipping up some breakfast sausage from a pork shoulder steak or two. I found a couple of other videos from these showing similar results using a chef knife. Thanks for the links!
 
JWK1 said:
Yes! You get what I'm doing. Like a koosh ball, only it's on one plane, not a ball. Yes, the idea after cross cutting is to cut them off to get the proper sized little "cubes" to make the sausage.
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It's also quite similar to one of the usual methods of dicing an onion.
 
I've learned a bit since this thread started. I'll start a part 2.
 
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