Iron vs steel clad

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zetieum

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I want to pick your mind and experience on this subject: what are the pluses and the minuses of iron vs carbon steel clad knives.
For instance assuming 2 knives with the same core steel, same HT, same geometry etc. Would you choose a carbon steel clad or and iron clad knife ?
 
Iron is more cost effective but will usually be more reactive. I cant think of many Carbon steel clad knives?
 
I don't think I've seen carbon steel clad knives unless it's pattern welded clad

The only steel clad that are common are stainless.

I don't really see the point of a carbon clad, in that case wouldn't you just make a monosteel knife.
 
When it comes to thinning and maintenance, if I'm not mistaken, iron claddings are normally softer, and therefore easier to grind, than their stainless counterparts.
Also some of us just love a patina :biggrin:
 
Is this a case of iron cladding just simply being very low % carbon steel? Or they are two different things? At the simplest level, steel's composition is predominantly iron + a little carbon (+ impurities).
 
There are practical uses for carbon steel cladding. Traditionally, it was mostly to make heat treatment more likely to be successful with pre-modern technology. With steel cladding, you can achieve a spring-tempered cladding and a hard core. This is more useful for swords than knives, but can still benefit knives.

Is this a case of iron cladding just simply being very low % carbon steel? Or they are two different things?

Basically, yes. Technically, the carbon content will be too low for it to be "steel". AFAIK, there's no universal definition of the cut-off carbon content between iron and steel; I've seen 0.05%, 0.08%, 0.002%, and other varied numbers. (Almost everybody gives 2.1% for the upper end for steel; more than that and you have cast iron.)

At the simplest level, steel's composition is predominantly iron + a little carbon (+ impurities).

For low-alloy steel AKA carbon steel, that's all it is. For alloy steels, the other alloying elements usually outweigh the carbon, sometimes by a lot. IIRC, the alloy must be at least 50% iron to be considered steel.
 
I agree with what TimoNieminen said.
To elaborate a little more, the terminology makes this topic difficult to discuss as we might end up arguing over semantics.

Most non-stainless soft cladding could correctly be called all of these things:
- Iron
- Steel
- Carbon steel
- Mild steel
- Low carbon steel
- Plain carbon steel
- Structural steel

These are loosely-defined labels that cover a broad range of steels. A better idea would be to get into the specific steels used (e.g. Gokunantetsu, 1018, 1020 steel), otherwise no-one knows what the other is talking about.
 
Yes this could become a very interesting topic if getting into the differences between such claddings. I obviously made such error above when thinking the op meant stainless or iron/carbon/...
Could somebody elucidate the difference in claddings watetsu, and rentetsu? Heiji talks of using the different steels on his site, but I'm not sure what he means.
Also, Timo, what do you mean by 'spring' tempering?
 
Also, Timo, what do you mean by 'spring' tempering?

Take a suitable steel, such as 1060 carbon steel. Annealed, it is soft (about HRC25, iirc), and if you bend it a little, it will stay bent. Heat and quench, and it is very hard (maybe about HRC63) but very brittle. If you bend it a little, it snaps. Temper it at about 400C for an hour, and the hardness will drop to about HRC50, and you'll be able to bend it a long way without it staying bent or snapping - it will spring back to the original shape. This is the simple way to make a steel spring. (There are fancier ways of doing the heat treatment, and you could use steels like 9260, 5160, etc., but this basic method works.) If your carbon content is too low (e.g., mild steel), you can't achieve this kind of spring temper.

Interestingly, the elastic modulus (Young's modulus) of the steel is almost unaffected by the heat treatment (or even the alloy, in most cases - the elastic modulus only varies by about 10% from mild steel to ultra-high carbon steels to stainless steels). What the alloy and heat treatment affect is how far you can bend it before it stays bent or breaks, and which of those two failures occurs.
 
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