Is a honyaki Deba stupid?

Discussion in 'The Kitchen Knife' started by Godslayer, Oct 10, 2018.

  1. Oct 10, 2018 #1

    Godslayer

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    Basically as the thread states. Would a blue #2 honyaki Deba be durable enough for fish butchury? I have a honyaki yanagi and usuba from Ikeda and was considering a honyaki Deba, but I'm not sure if that's smart, as it would be unusuable or super fragile, ive never noticed any issues with durability with my current honyakis but none of them have had to face the rigors a Deba would. I've already ordered one but if it's going to be ultra fragile I'll order a second San mai one and allow myself one drawer queen. Largest fish it will see is a 40-60lb halibut and a 20lb salmon.
     
  2. Oct 10, 2018 #2

    Spipet

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    I use a honyaki mt fuji deba by genkai and havent had any issues so far :)
     
  3. Oct 10, 2018 #3

    Godslayer

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    good to know, after I bought it I saw a few posts about them being really fragile and I got worried
     
  4. Oct 10, 2018 #4

    crockerculinary

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    im confused, why would a honyaki in blue #2 be any more fragile than any other knife in blue #2?
     
  5. Oct 10, 2018 #5

    Brandon Wicks

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    Definitely would be fine on halibut and salmon.
     
  6. Oct 10, 2018 #6

    osakajoe

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    If you’re collecting it or using as a show piece, no.

    Practical use, yes. Just get a clad blue 2.
     
  7. Oct 10, 2018 #7

    Spipet

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    Care to elaborate?
     
  8. Oct 10, 2018 #8

    Godslayer

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    Shock absorbtion is the big thing. The cladding on a San mai knife can absorb a lot of the impact from hitting bones and the like. Saying that I probably will get a second one at some point and keep the honyaki for home use.
     
  9. Oct 10, 2018 #9

    Omega

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    lets use our collective powers to summon Jon Klip- I think he's been using more Honyaki single bevel in his work in Japan...
     
  10. Oct 10, 2018 #10

    Spipet

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    Maybe, but I’d like to hear a proper argument instead of a yes or no ;)

    I mean im definitely not gonna chop through a spine like a crazy person, but with care and technique I’m struggling to find a problem at home (am not a pro so can’t say anything about that)
     
  11. Oct 10, 2018 #11

    HRC_64

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    Deba sees alot more micro-chip , so the maintenance on the blade road is potentially non-trivial. The more forgiving knife is perhaps just easier to maintain.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2018
  12. Oct 10, 2018 #12

    ynot1985

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    I just visited Jon tonight’s restaurant.. whilst it’s not a deba .. the sound of a honyaki hamokiri destroying the bones of conger eels was amazing (there were tiny chips on the edge though)
     
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  13. Oct 10, 2018 #13

    panda

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    just be mindful of technique and dont hack away at bones with it.
     
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  14. Oct 10, 2018 #14

    Anton

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    i've recently created a small fracture on my hiromoto honyaki, it was a stupid move on my part but the blade just felt indestructible until i tackled some tough skin squash, but guess it woudl have happened to any blade? first time for me
     
  15. Oct 11, 2018 at 1:04 AM #15

    osakajoe

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    First and most importantly, COST. You will pay easily 3-5x more for a honyaki over a clad deba. For what ? Shiny look?

    A clad deba will do the same as a honyaki. It’s the edge that is doing the work. You guys act as a honyaki some how summons mystical powers and makes it super indestructible. It’s the same if buying same steel clad or honyaki.

    Second as already posted, a deba sees a lot more heavy lifting and you get more chips and damage to your blade. A honyaki will take you a hell of a lot more time to fix.

    Third most people, even on this forum, do not know how to properly sharpen a deba or single bevel blade. You make a mistake on a honyaki and you’ve screwed yourself out of some money. Because you’ll more than likely have to start over and take more steel off.

    But hey go buy a Ferrari, take it off roading, and attempt to fix it yourself after. I’d sell you one if I had one and charge you an arm and leg.
     
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  16. Oct 11, 2018 at 1:11 AM #16

    Godslayer

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    I knew all this, from what I understand the only real benifit is a honyaki deba is less likely to warp, im ok with my yanagi being honyaki because it realistically shouldn't chip, the worst it might see is a pin bone, that and i got a good price on mine, about 500 usd with saya and shipped, still more then a clad yanagi but I was ok with it as I believed a yoshikazu ikeda and ino-san blade would be good, so far I haven't had to really sharpen it, just 5000/8000 touch ups every now and again, I only really portion fish and do sashimi style i.e. thin slices for functions. The honyaki deba is ordered and is honestly just to complete a set of yoshikazu honyakis, I like them and can afford them so I said why not. I'll send you a pm and maybe you can recommend something since you seem to really know what your talking about.
     
  17. Oct 11, 2018 at 1:59 AM #17

    panda

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    shoulda just went with a masamoto ks deba, that's what they were originally known for.
     
  18. Oct 11, 2018 at 2:04 AM #18

    Godslayer

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    I looked at them as I like masamotos work but at $400 for a San mai 180 or 500 if I wanted blue steel it was just too much money for a knife I'm using to cut off fish heads. The honyaki was only Boughton because I have a usuba and yanagi from him and figured I'd complete the set.
     
  19. Oct 11, 2018 at 3:39 AM #19

    Chef Doom

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    Honyaki Deba is the best use of your money.
     
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  20. Oct 11, 2018 at 4:05 AM #20

    panda

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    400 is too much for a deba so your solution was to go with an even more expensive one just to make a 'set'??

    doom strikes again, lol
     
  21. Oct 11, 2018 at 4:25 AM #21

    Godslayer

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    Yeah... im not sure why but I was driven to order one, once I got the other two, worse case I can do what everyone else does and flip it for double, I paid 520 but im sure it would sell for over a grand here or ebay... I wouldn't do that but I could, I'm a bit strange in the fact I have work knives(tanakas, masakages, tojiros, etc) and home knives (HHH, Harner, Ikeda, uchigumo etc) sometimes home knives will make it to work if the need arises but in general I keep anything too expensive or rare to replace at home and they get used for friends family or just me cooking hot dogs in the nude, used mjonir(the thor themed gesshin heiji cleaver) earlier to cut open hot dog buns lol, I think that's actually a fairly normal thing for the pros here to do if they have a couple blades that are pricier, every knife I own has seen use in a pro kitchen but normally if I am bringing in one of my fancier knives it's one at a time and I keep a solid eye on them and it's because I thought they would do something better then my cheaper knives. Basically my question was is a san mai one more functional in the workplace and I think I've gotten my response lol.
     
  22. Oct 11, 2018 at 10:48 AM #22

    osakajoe

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    As I said in my first post if collecting, as in completing a set, it is not stupid to invest in one. That you already own a few was not known at the time. Glad you ordered it to complete your set.
     
  23. Oct 11, 2018 at 1:35 PM #23

    Spipet

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    So what if people want a more expensive knife? There’s numerous reasons to want one. And who cares they do the same? Nothing wrong with wanting to have nice stuff.

    And about charging an arm and a leg: you sure know how to promote your business lol
     
  24. Oct 11, 2018 at 2:10 PM #24

    osakajoe

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    Go see my first post before chirping at me.

    And charging an arm and a leg for used knives hasn’t had any effect on the B/S/T thread. lol
     
  25. Oct 11, 2018 at 2:26 PM #25

    Godslayer

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    Calm down everyone. I don't want this to get ugly lol .I have a 210mm honyaki aogomi #1 coming down the line next year and a 180mm hon kasumi aogomi #2 coming later this year(early november) to be my main workhorse .I got a price of $220 shipped ems to my door with a saya and custom kanji. Both are ikeda, both sharpened by Ino-san. The honyaki was obviously more then that and will be for the odd 100+ lb fish or maybe my trip home if I go fishing. More of an occasion knife
     
  26. Oct 11, 2018 at 2:33 PM #26

    comet_sharp

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    As said before the biggest difference is price. There is no difference in the steel except most honyaki are austentized from lower temperatures than laminated knives (except Sanjo, they use low aust temps for everything ❤) which if anything makes them TOUGHER. San mai will bend, honyaki will not. Toughness of steel depends on heat treat/temper and NOT construction.
    San mai will he easier to maintain, honyaki will have a better board feel (subjective).
    -Trey
     
  27. Oct 16, 2018 at 5:06 PM #27

    LucasFur

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    I always suspected there was a bit of showmanship with honyaki, especially for when the chef is in front of you. If he keeps good care of his knife all the way to the point that the hamon is showing, it shows he is at a high level of dedication and perfection. ... just my 2 cents.
     
  28. Oct 16, 2018 at 5:17 PM #28

    Gjackson98

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    Sorry I love this photo too much, but I think it fits
     
  29. Oct 16, 2018 at 5:26 PM #29

    Godslayer

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    I work in a closed kitchen, thank god, I have a 180mm blue #2 hon kasumi deba coming in about 2-3 weeks, blade is forged but it needs to see the sharpener, the honyaki will be about 12-18 months and is 210mm mystery steel(haven't decided yet, either aogomi #1 or silver #3)
     
  30. Oct 16, 2018 at 5:53 PM #30

    HRC_64

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    FWIW, wouldn't silver 3 ("honyaki") solve all the problems...since only 60-61 hrc Max?

    An 6-8mm slab of 65 hrc mono blue 2 deba is not gonna be fun to thin,
    but maybe 60-61 G3 isn't so bad (?)


    The suisin g3 line used to be IIRC monosteel,
    and were popular with pro types back in the day.
     

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