Is this the best Santoku knife?

[slowtyper]

To be honest I still don't know how to pronounce gyuto...

 

[mpukas]

I find it ammusing that the OP has only made 1 post, and this thread has turned into 7 pages...

edit - I am enjoying the discussion.

 

[SpikeC]

The knife he is asking about is a Tanaka, The Best Things has it with a little turquoise in addition to the black micarta on the handle for $100 less. Those have R2 cores I believe, it should be a very nice knife for its style.
Or SG2, I'm not sure on the core steel, butt it is pretty good.

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

The Wusthof santokus are part of their "Asian" series and are fairly thin. I just took a caliper to my old Wusthof santoku and the spine measures 2.3 mm at the heel. That's identical to the spine measurement of a Shun. So any performance improvement will have to come from the steel and the grind.

The SG-2 steel of the Shun Kaji will be an improvement over the Wusthof. A little harder to sharpen, but it will hold an edge longer.

The santoku sold by Rutlands has the same SG-2 steel as in the Shun Kaji, so there's no advantage there, except for looks, and it is almost twice the price.

You asked for alternatives, so putting looks aside, this Tojiro DP damascus santoku will give you better performance than the Wusthof, almost as good as the Shun or Rutlands, and at less than £95, is a pretty good deal.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000UAQORI/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I've assumed that you are located in the UK, if I am in error, I apologize.

Rick

I am looking for an amazing santoku knife - I currently have a Wusthof santoku that gets shaving sharp but not very attractive and a little too thick.

I am considering either a Shun Kaji or this offering from Rutlands in the UK which has 64 layers wrapped arround a SG-2 core:

http://www.rutlands.co.uk/knives/ki...186/micarta-hocho-santoku-all-purpose---165mm

Any advice or other suggestions would be most welcome..

 

[dragonlord]

From my very limited pov, the santoku is better for chopping and slicing sticky veg like potato because of the dimples in the side of the blade, while doing the same chopping with a gyuto or chefs knife can leave you with hard to move slices of those vegetables on the blade. I appreciate that that could just be a matter of technique or thickness of cut, but it's the reason I pull out the cheap santoku over my new gyuto

 

[tk59]

From my very limited pov, the santoku is better for chopping and slicing sticky veg like potato because of the dimples in the side of the blade, while doing the same chopping with a gyuto or chefs knife can leave you with hard to move slices of those vegetables on the blade. I appreciate that that could just be a matter of technique or thickness of cut, but it's the reason I pull out the cheap santoku over my new gyuto

While that may be the case, your lack of sticking on the santoku is most likely due to the thickness of the blade near the edge. What santoku and gyuto are we talking about?

 

[cookinstuff]

Felt I would weigh in on a few things. Some basic knife prep work you would do I guess. Mirepoix, fine dice, julienne, brunoise. Chicken break down, striploin breakdown, whole fish cleaning, and some line work like slicing proteins.

Mirepoix- I personally find a gyuto to be a great asset when going through large amounts of vegetable prep. I feel a vegetable cleaver will serve you just as well if not better. Basically, just because of the scoop of the cleaver. I find the cleaver excels in julienne, brunoise, but the gyuto will probably get your fine dice a little bit better, the thin profile at the tip creates less drag going both ways through your vegetables. So, your onion will stay intact better and won't get "pulled" apart by your knife sticking. The cleaver I would say is the safer knife because of it's height.
Oh ya, the santoku, no thanks in this category.

Chicken breakdown- ugh, none of the gyuto, cleaver, santoku are gonna do you much good here, get a boning knife, a honesuki or I use a hankotsu. I think if anything for a home cook a good petty will do fine, just be really careful separating bones/joints, or switch to your gyuto. Removing the breasts I do not like using a gyuto for though, chinese chefs do a great job with the vegetable cleaver. Martin Yan can clean a chicken no problem with his vegetable cleaver, but you aren't Martin Yan.

Fish- Small fish cleaning the tip of the gyuto can make due, a suji can do well with skinning after it's bones are out. But, if cleaning whole fish like salmon, a workhouse gyuto will do the job start to finish if you want, gut, bone, filet. Cleaver, nope, Santoku, hmmm I guess, but you are gonna want something longer than 200mm to skin the fish. But to breakdown and filet a santoku will do ya.

 

[cookinstuff]

Striploin- Forget these three knives and get a boning knife, a suji or petty can do the job as well. You need a knife with a sharp tip to get under your silverskin and remove it, I use a hankotsu it's single bevel, so removing silverskin is easy to get under and not cut up through. Trying to do this with a santoku would be ridiculous, a cleaver likewise. A gyuto can definitely clean down a strip no problem, but I find its wider profile isn't desired for removing the skin. Cutting your steaks use a suji or a gyuto long enough that you can pull through withough sawing, cleaver and santoku are way out for this.

Line work- ok you just let your protein rest, and it's time to slice and serve, get out your 210 petty that you don't care about (because your buddy is gonna knock it on the ground on Saturday night), or if you got a nice luxurious station keep a heavy workhouse gyuto for just in case, and a nice slicer. I keep a utility holster with basically a 150 boning knife, and a 210 suji/petty, in a pinch I can chop, mince, slice, cut bags, plastic zip ties, open boxes, so streamlining your knife lineup can vary depending on work/home, environment plays massive part.

In summary, when you got nothing to do, and aren't busy. Oh ya and you need to cut some mushrooms, just sliced mushrooms, you know the plain little buttons, grab your santoku and get your santoku on homeboy. Oh, but if it's shiitakes or something else, get your damn gyuto ya numpty.

 

[cookinstuff]

Oh, for the person who said the granton edge stops sticking, I am not sure. I do not own any granton edge'd knives, but I can assure you it is each knife not the knife type that depends on sticking. I have several gyutos that will not stick to a potato if you tried, a good convex grind can reduce sticking, some say things like damascus and mirror finishes help I don't know myself. Also, if your wedging your potato before you are even through it, you aren't going to stick hehe. There is so many factors that are a mystery before you purchase a knife that may reveal itself to you only when it's in your hand. After my massive rant I must put a disclaimer, I don't even own a santoku. I have worked with many people who have, some love them for cutting things like mushrooms, cucumbers and other soft veg. where length isn't an issue, and others have moved on to other things, usually a good gyuto and specialized knives- boning, bread, slicing. But myself, my bag is way too packed full of knives to throw a santoku in their for cutting chives.

 

[dragonlord]

I bought a cheap santoku from this offer to see how it works as a knife and I own a carboNext

 

[Bryan]

Dear All,

Many thanks for taking the time to share your vast knowledge. Clearly I should have added to original question that this knife won’t be my only knife. I have four Wusthofs, three Kasumis, along with some David Mellor knifes I received as a gift:

http://www.davidmellordesign.com/acatalog/David_Mellor_Kitchen_Knives_Stainless_Steel.html

The Mellor knifes sharpen well bet don’t keep an edge long. BTW he make awesome table cutlery:

http://www.davidmellordesign.com/acatalog/David_Mellor_City_Cutlery.html

I have a family of six and I do most of the cooking as a keen armature cook. My chopping boards are standard domestic sizes approx. 12”x18”. I purchased most of these knifes about seven years ago when I got tired of supermarket knives.

My “go to knife” has always been the santoku hence my desire to now replace it along with my other Wusthof knifes. I find the 17cm santoku is used for about 70% of my cutting, with a larger Ksaumi chef knife and wusthof paring knife being used for 20%, I use the kasumi bread knife and the David Mellor carving knife for about 10%; my other knifes are mostly used by my wife. For the veg I use: onions, Carrots, leeks, squash , cabbage etc I have no problems with the length of the santoku: I use the carving knife for large melons.

I loudly hear what you say and will purchase acquire a gyuto as part of my Wusthof upgrades (I will look at previous threads for this solution). I would however still like to upgrade my santoku. From your silence about shuns I will assume these are out of the equation. I will explore the links supplied in your replies.

Again, MANY MANY thanks for taking the time to reply, I have already learnt so much from this forum.

Bryan,
PS - Yes I live in the UK - we have to pay import duty/ and 20% vat on US imports. I struggle to find specialist Japanese knives in the UK.

 

[dav]

Hi Bryan I'm in the UK and to be honest wasn't impressed with either the limited selection from the 2 or 3 main UK retailers or their inflated prices.

I ordered a lovely Damascus Moritaka Gyuto from Chefsknives to go in the US and am in the process of ordering a Deba from Shinichi Watanabe (Watanabe blades) brilliant service from both and shipping and the 28.5% VAT and customs tax (rip off UK lol) still mean't I'm getting a decent deal and more importantly can choose what I want.

Erm retailers are quite "helpful" when it comes to the "extra" payment :thumbsup:

 

[DanB]

To be honest I still don't know how to pronounce gyuto...

The g and y form one sound together; don't say gee-u-toe. It's gyu (and u is long too). Hope that helps.

 

[Chifunda]

The g and y form one sound together; don't say gee-u-toe. It's gyu (and u is long too). Hope that helps.

Click on the speaker icon for pronunciation.


http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml

 

[cookinstuff]

I like Mizuno Tanrenjos little santoku on Japanese chef knife in blue 2 steel. Atleast I think I do, I have seen the white one in action, way too reactive, but the blue 2 gyuto is great. So, I would have to assume the santoku would be no different. Tojiro makes some nice inexpensive little knives in white with a kuro ichi finish, my friend has a nakiri he got for 40, maybe they make a santoku as well. Either way, if you like the santoku and you have other knives that fill the gaps then why not. But, I would look at other places, expense doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be good. A lot of japanese makers will supply a cheaper handle and sell a lot of knives under $100 that are still real performers. Good luck and have fun.

 

[BobCat]

Click on the speaker icon for pronunciation.


http://www.zknives.com/knives/kitchen/misc/usetype/all/index.shtml

WOW thanks for that link! I use my Masamoto Santoku often in my home kitchen, but I also use a 180cm Mizuno Gyuto even more. It works for me as it is small with a good pointy tip. And then I discovered Pettys...:wink:

 

[BobCat]

WOW thanks for that link! I use my Masamoto Santoku often in my home kitchen, but I also use a 180cm Mizuno Gyuto even more. It works for me as it is small with a good pointy tip. And then I discovered Pettys...:wink:

Oops my bad...the Masamoto is 180 and the Mizuno is 210. It's all good!

 

[tk59]

Based on your original choice, I would pick the Inazuma line from JCK. If you don't mind less flashy and smallish but nicely shaped handles, I would consider the Kanetsugu Pro M also from JCK.

 

[Andrew H]

Based on your original choice, I would pick the Inazuma line from JCK. If you don't mind less flashy and smallish but nicely shaped handles, I would consider the Kanetsugu Pro M also from JCK.

Both would be good choices. Since you're in the UK using JCK (http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/) makes sense.

 

[Pensacola Tiger]

Bryan,

You might want to have Will Catchside make you a custom knife, since you are practically in his backyard:

http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/forumdisplay.php/78-Catcheside-Cutlery

Rick

 

[TB_London]

JCK is good for the UK as shipping is cheap and usually comes through without HMRC taking a cut. Performance wise this should outperform what you have at the moment, but the HT on the White #2 core isn't great so it's prone to chipping and the cladding is quite reactive.

http://www.niwaki.com/store/nashi-houcho-japanese-knives/

If you want quality I'd contact WillC and get a custom

 

[Justin0505]

Another big + 1 for a Catcheside custom. Wills prices are still "get to know you / get you hooked" low and he has been very receptive to listening to my crazy ideas and making a knife that fits them better than anything that you will ever see listed from a retailer.... Wait till you guys see the project we've been dreaming up... Minds will be BLOWN (hint: even Andy might be impressed).

OK, also I've read the last 9 pages of santoku hate/love and I just have to throw my 2¢ in. I know that this will might be sacrilege on a site dedicated to tools, but I just wanted to remind everyone that performance is determined by a combination of the tool AND the skill of its operator. When we get to this level of tools, the differences between one type of mid length multi-purpose knife (santoku) and another (petty/small gyuto) will be almost insignificant compared to a user's skill, familiarity, and personal affinity for one.

How many times have I been on a ride and seen a group of guys on this season's hottest full carbon race bikes get smoked by someone on an 8yr old aluminum framed "training bike. "
Or been at the range and watched a "tactical" noob with a $2k Kimber or something plastic and fantastic get embarassd by a old timer with an old single action revolver.

Just be careful what you turn your nose up at, because there's always someone out there that has spent more time on skill than trash talk and options and will make you look like a fool.

 

[tk59]

In one sentence you are saying that you are going to blow minds with a knife design and in the next you are essentially saying that at this level, there is no point in arguing about what is "better." That's funny. I think the arguments are part of what makes a forum live.

 

[El Pescador]

To each his own. In the right context, a santoku is a great knife.

 

[TB_London]

If I wanted a Santoku the Shig that Maxim has on his site would be calling my name.... Looks like it would be pretty close to the best Santoku

 

[SpikeC]

+1!

 

[Johnny.B.Good]

If I wanted a Santoku the Shig that Maxim has on his site would be calling my name.... Looks like it would be pretty close to the best Santoku

+1 if damascus is your thing.

If not, then I would get this:

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...in-hide-180mm-white-2-hon-kasumi-santoku.html

 

[G-rat]

+1 if damascus is your thing.

If not, then I would get this:

http://www.japaneseknifeimports.com...in-hide-180mm-white-2-hon-kasumi-santoku.html

Seriously I have no idea how these knives perform in hand but based on what I have bought from Jon, the reviewed quality of hide's single bevels and gyutos, and Just how damn beautiful that knife is for the price aside from the fact that it isn't stainless which the OP seemed to want, this knife looks like a seriously good one. It or the heiji santoku on JKI would be killer santoku buys...with the hide maybe being a better value for the price and size.

 

[Johnny.B.Good]

Or maybe this:

http://www.epicureanedge.com/shopexd.asp?id=86464

 

[Justin0505]

In one sentence you are saying that you are going to blow minds with a knife design and in the next you are essentially saying that at this level, there is no point in arguing about what is "better." That's funny. I think the arguments are part of what makes a forum live.

I never said that I'm above getting caught up in gear and cool looking or feeling stuff (I sure would be wasting my time on here if I was). Just because I know that there are people that will cut circles around me with a $50 Forshner santoku, doesn't mean that there is "no point" to my knife rack full of fancy knives. For me, they have a point and I LIKE them better than other knives, but I think that it's very easy to shorten the phrase "I LIKE this better" to this "IS better."

When the OP, asks a question about a santoku and the post gets filled with 9 pages of "what type of knife is better" and not "what's the best SANTOKU for the OP", I fail to see how that is "what makes a forum live." -It looks to me like people getting OT and confusing their own opinion with universal truth and picking sides in some absurd, closed-minded rivalry.
I see that as losing sight of the fact that "better", past a certain level, is mostly relative and that what's better to the poster is a santoku. My recommendation to go custom was in direct response that he will get the best possible knife for him; not that his knife will be better than all other knives in that category. I think that there is huge value to getting something that you think is really special and will "blow minds" - just don't think that it will be any better, or make you any better than anyone else and whatever it is that they happen to like.

Or, if I wanted to say this w/ 1/5th the characters and 1/100th the pissing and moaning, I could have just quoted pesky:

To each his own. In the right context, a santoku is a great knife.