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honestly one of the big ironies of JNats IMO is that if you want a "safe bet" stone that isnt tiny you need a pretty serious amount of money.

in most hobbies I'd there's a wealth of "basic" stuff that you can get for not very much and it will be fine if uninspiring to the cognoscenti and the big money goes to stuff with character or flaws that if you work around can be amazing. instead, the stone everybody would probably be happiest with is a super clean 2,000 USD Ohira Renge Shiro Suita you dont even have to think about using, you can just throw your knife down on top of it and not worry and it will cut super fast and leave a beautiful finish and amazing edge.

most of the stones you can get for 100-200 dollars, and trust me normal people think that's already a LOT for a stone from my talking to them about naturals, tend to be awful. even for 300 dollars these days you're often looking at relatively small stones under 1kg. there are a couple of good deals out there but the last time I talked to Jon about his Hideriyamas he said they might not come back and that was pretty much the best deal going, even compared to Maruoyama stuff.
 
tcmx3 said:
tons of stuff.

it should be obvious that when you buy from them you're rolling the dice. subsequently, I dont buy anything expensive from them. on the other hand, I have an INCREDIBLE ohira shiro suita from them they thought was laden with toxic lines and cost like 250 dollars. and several perfectly fine tomae stones.

I would not spend 500 dollars on a stone from them even, much less the kind of money you'd shell out for a big chunk of uchigumori/nakayama/etc. there are plenty of sources for actual good stones if you have the money, and when I spend up Im going to go to one of those.
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^ This ^ btw is exactly what I was doing: rolling dice. My stone was a very cheap tomae koppa, so I'm not going to begrudge it - just how it is!
 
JDC said:
I tried to buy from them, and they even sent testing pics for me. But the pricing wasn’t sweet enough for the size and quality. Anyone had actually bought from them?
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I did buy a Wakasa suita from them months ago. Judging from the patterns that one particular stone should be genuine. and it works pretty well too.
on the other hand, once I was interested in a natsuya and asked him to test it for me. he said he normally does not do this but then tested it anyway. the polishing was craaaap.
so yeah, it's like rolling the dice.

Edit - when I said polishing from that natsuya was crap, I meant it. I mean I could probably pick up a piece of black slate in my garden and achieve a better result. Couple of days later I went back to check their website and it was gone.... pity the buyer...
 
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Martyn said:
I did buy a Wakasa suita from them months ago. Judging from the patterns that one particular stone should be genuine. and it works pretty well too.
on the other hand, once I was interested in a natsuya and asked him to test it for me. he said he normally does not do this but then tested it anyway. the polishing was craaaap.
so yeah, it's like rolling the dice.
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Natsuya is exactly the sort of stone I would not advise looking for on ikkyu. They are readily available in good quality for about the same price from many dealers who are a lot more involved in the sale of such items. Same would be true with Tsushima, Igarashi, etc. Ikkyu is a good place to buy a dodgy suita for 200 dollars IMO and hope the one you get is pretty good.
 
So far I've only bought from
tcmx3 said:
honestly one of the big ironies of JNats IMO is that if you want a "safe bet" stone that isnt tiny you need a pretty serious amount of money.

in most hobbies I'd there's a wealth of "basic" stuff that you can get for not very much and it will be fine if uninspiring to the cognoscenti and the big money goes to stuff with character or flaws that if you work around can be amazing. instead, the stone everybody would probably be happiest with is a super clean 2,000 USD Ohira Renge Shiro Suita you dont even have to think about using, you can just throw your knife down on top of it and not worry and it will cut super fast and leave a beautiful finish and amazing edge.

most of the stones you can get for 100-200 dollars, and trust me normal people think that's already a LOT for a stone from my talking to them about naturals, tend to be awful. even for 300 dollars these days you're often looking at relatively small stones under 1kg. there are a couple of good deals out there but the last time I talked to Jon about his Hideriyamas he said they might not come back and that was pretty much the best deal going, even compared to Maruoyama stuff.
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Yeah Jon had some pretty sweet stones before, for example his shobu suitas. Unfortunately his JNat stock kept dwindling...
 
tcmx3 said:
honestly one of the big ironies of JNats IMO is that if you want a "safe bet" stone that isnt tiny you need a pretty serious amount of money.

in most hobbies I'd there's a wealth of "basic" stuff that you can get for not very much and it will be fine if uninspiring to the cognoscenti and the big money goes to stuff with character or flaws that if you work around can be amazing. instead, the stone everybody would probably be happiest with is a super clean 2,000 USD Ohira Renge Shiro Suita you dont even have to think about using, you can just throw your knife down on top of it and not worry and it will cut super fast and leave a beautiful finish and amazing edge.

most of the stones you can get for 100-200 dollars, and trust me normal people think that's already a LOT for a stone from my talking to them about naturals, tend to be awful. even for 300 dollars these days you're often looking at relatively small stones under 1kg. there are a couple of good deals out there but the last time I talked to Jon about his Hideriyamas he said they might not come back and that was pretty much the best deal going, even compared to Maruoyama stuff.
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https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone1.htm#
What do you think of #11?
 
KnightKnightForever said:
https://www.kitchen-knife.jp/special/wetstone1.htm#
What do you think of #11?
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Watanabe is a well known stone dealer, and I have one of his stones that I got second hand and it's nice. But he doesnt provide a whole lot of details.

If you want to spend 4 figures on an ohira suita, it might be worth shooting Maxim at JNS an email, he has nice ones and he tends to show pictures of resulting finish. In the past, he even used to do videos, he might be able to do that for you or give you specific notes.
 
tcmx3 said:
Watanabe is a well known stone dealer, and I have one of his stones that I got second hand and it's nice. But he doesnt provide a whole lot of details.

If you want to spend 4 figures on an ohira suita, it might be worth shooting Maxim at JNS an email, he has nice ones and he tends to show pictures of resulting finish. In the past, he even used to do videos, he might be able to do that for you or give you specific notes.
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I’m afraid that Maxim’s renge suitas are no longer in vicinity of $1k…
 
JDC said:
Marouyama is usually softer, but shoubudani is a good suggestion, still muddier but nice feedback.
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if you want an ohira suita these days, just pony up.

if you just want a great stone then Maruoyama is the best deal going, but even they are getting more expensive. I prefer Maru to Shobu, but I prefer Ohira to both, but a nice example of any of them is infinitely better than a bad example of any of them.
 
tcmx3 said:
if you want an ohira suita these days, just pony up.

if you just want a great stone then Maruoyama is the best deal going, but even they are getting more expensive. I prefer Maru to Shobu, but I prefer Ohira to both, but a nice example of any of them is infinitely better than a bad example of any of them.
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Sure, I’ve tried a white shoubu that is better than my full renge ohira. The price for any good suita is just sky rocketing recently (through visible channels).
 
naader said:
I just looked at the pics on my computer and im 90% sure that "okudo suita" ikkyu posted is a yaginoshima asagi lmfao. Knew from day 1 that site was a scam.
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I wouldn't go so far as calling them a scam. Granted, they're not personally too knowledgeable about JNats, and rely on their supplier instead.

@rtt I'd reach out to them about your concerns, from experience, they'll try and make it right.
 
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JDC said:
Is the stone acidic? You can try leaving some slurry (can be generated by diamond stone) on the soft iron and see if there's any mark left by the slurry after a minute or so.
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I have never thought of trying that, let me try it out the next time I use it.
 
naader said:
I mean the patterning of the surface more than the actual colour lol.

Here's an example of habutae okudo shiro suita. Sides and face look completely different
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It does look completely different especially the side, and I guess your white are very pure white where as mine as greyish tone to it
 
DHunter86 said:
I wouldn't go so far as calling them a scam. Granted, they're not personally too knowledgeable about JNats, and rely on their supplier instead.

@rtt I'd reach out to them about your concerns, from experience, they'll try and make it right.
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I didn't get mine through Ikkyu, got mine through lida tools.
 
I've never paid any attention to all the talk about jnats on various sites and forums. I've always gone with my gut and so far I've never had a bad stone. It can be anything from an Amakusa to a fine finisher. The last time my gut told me to get it was with an Aizu and before that there was a very long gap when I didn't see anything that me made me think, that's the one. Eventually something always comes along that I instinctively know is going to be really good and when it does I'm going all in.
 
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rtt said:
I didn't get mine through Ikkyu, got mine through lida tools.
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My bad, there you just need to pay a little attention. His stones aren't bad per se, just not the top-grade stuff. I've got a couple from him that are great performers (just not looks). Again, I'd reach out to him if you're unhappy. He's very knowledgeable about carpentry tools, but again relies a lot on his supplier for JNats.

PM me if you'd like to discuss further.
 
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Lucien said:
View attachment 145891
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Hey man, I don't think it's nice to post private comms on a public forum, particularly if it's about a business' suppliers. If you ran a business or sold anything, you wouldn't want anyone revealing your suppliers and contacts without your consent either, right?

Also, I find your accusations that they're Buyee resellers a bit misleading and unfair. Sure, Buyee is flooded with stones, from trash to great pieces. But that's just not sustainable for any full-time stone seller - supplies are unpredictable and costs are highly variable too. I actually know for a fact that their stones aren't from Buyee, as I've had them try to source specific stones for me from their suppliers before.

As buyers, of course, we would like our sellers to have tested and documented all their stones well, and those sellers definitely do exist. But for that, one shouldn't expect the service for free - reasonable mark-ups are inevitable. For every good stone sold, a seller might have had a few that don't make the cut - that factors into mark-ups, in addition to their time. If you want cheap stones, take the risk: Buyee - no recourse, at least Ikkyu backs their stones, and there's a discussion to be had if a stone isn't up to expectations.
 
DHunter86 said:
Hey man, I don't think it's nice to post private comms on a public forum, particularly if it's about a business' suppliers. If you ran a business or sold anything, you wouldn't want anyone revealing your suppliers and contacts without your consent either, right?

Also, I find your accusations that they're Buyee resellers a bit misleading and unfair. Sure, Buyee is flooded with stones, from trash to great pieces. But that's just not sustainable for any full-time stone seller - supplies are unpredictable and costs are highly variable too. I actually know for a fact that their stones aren't from Buyee, as I've had them try to source specific stones for me from their suppliers before.

As buyers, of course, we would like our sellers to have tested and documented all their stones well, and those sellers definitely do exist. But for that, one shouldn't expect the service for free - reasonable mark-ups are inevitable. For every good stone sold, a seller might have had a few that don't make the cut - that factors into mark-ups, in addition to their time. If you want cheap stones, take the risk: Buyee - no recourse, at least Ikkyu backs their stones, and there's a discussion to be had if a stone isn't up to expectations.
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Hi. Thank you for the comment. I think you are right. But the reason I posted this is actually to make right my previous seemingly unfair accusation. Besides, there was actually not any confidential info regarding his suppliers in the message. That was why I wanted to share it with this community, from which I have learned a lot.
Anyway, I have deleted my post. Let's just say that while some of his stones do come from auctions, most of the stones are not. And it is not uncommon for sellers to source stones from auctions.
 
Lucien said:
Hi. Thank you for the comment. I think you are right. But the reason I posted this is actually to make right my previous seemingly unfair accusation. Besides, there was actually not any confidential info regarding his suppliers in the message. That was why I wanted to share it with this community, from which I have learned a lot.
Anyway, I have deleted my post. Let's just say that while some of his stones do come from auctions, most of the stones are not. And it is not uncommon for sellers to source stones from auctions.
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IMHO that message makes them look more legit, not less. In fact, the way JNats were marketed in the western world lacks transparency.
 
JDC said:
IMHO that message makes them look more legit, not less. In fact, the way JNats were marketed in the western world lacks transparency.
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That's what I thought too when I posted it..... I actually thought they would have wanted me to post it, given how they found my previous comment and knew I was a member here....
 
@Lucien Sorry to have misunderstood you. My bad there, I've only had good dealings with them, hence, the post. Yeah, I do think they'd like you to correct your statement, but probably not by posting your comms. A quick statement would have done the job I think. :)

@JDC I agree 100% that there are some practices there that I'm absolutely not happy with. The number of layers some of those stones go through (each with their cut) is definitely no joke. Most sellers in Japan will not test the stones for you either; if it weren't for covid, the correct way to buy is definitely to make a trip to Japan in person.
 
Bought it back from GorillaGrunt 😅 Forgot how nice this suita is, even more so now that I have loads of experience with suitas.
20211005_183918.jpg
 
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