Just Another Fine Chat

[ModRQC]

Heya guys!

Arashiyama, Kitayama, Morihei Hi 6K, Morihei Karasu 9K...

Want the most refined possible edge that has just "that" amount of bite, no more. If it polishes, it's all well, but I really really want to focus on edge refinement. Still, I want a usable kitchen edge, not a razor.

Other suggestions? Naniwa Snow White?

Have at it please!

 

[KingShapton]

We're still talking about synthetic stones ?!

I myself do not go that high with synthetic stones (with rare exceptions), so I can not use my own experience as much.

What I can tell you from my own experience, it is more worthwhile to stay in the range # 3000- # 5000 and improve your own technique. No matter how good your own results are, with practice, time and experience they get better and you get completely different and better results out of the same stones.

Another possibility would be some kind of "hybrid-edge". From a medium stone that leaves a good bite on a fine stone (# 6000- # 8000) just a light stropping, not more. That should result in a refined edge with enough bite.

And as a side note, I have repeatedly read in various forums that the Snow White should produce more bite than the Kitayama. But I also keep reading that the Snow White should have the problem with the hairline cracks ...

 

[ModRQC]

Still, technique notwithstanding, it's the more refined edge of the SP5K that wins it over for me. Same technique applied, for any steel that takes it. I also like the Rika, if I want more bite it's where I stop.

Without going overboard, I'd like to see what finer still does for me. There's good feedback on all those I mentioned, but from general consensus I think Morihei 6K and Arashiyama leave more bite than I would care for with this purchase.

I'd like a fine J-nat, really, but the budget doesn't like these so much. Most of the cheaper J-Nats are rather on the med side of things, and don't look all too tempting to me anyhow.

I think Morihei stones like the Karasu have some Nats particles in them?

What's more attracting with a synth for me, in the particular parameters I intend for this purchase, is that I'm sure I really get a consistently finer abrasive. No good paying the big bucks for a fine J-Nats if some of the particles are rather med grits - hence lot of bite with refinement. Bite is easy to get.

 

[dafox]

Had a little laugh when I saw where you are going next in your stone journey

I had a Snow White 8K, and have an Arashyama 6K and a Kitayama 8K. I discovered that the Arashyama is just too fine for everyday kitchen knife use-its languishing in the stone box. I use the Kitayama as my last step in yanagiba sharpening, had the SW for that use but after reading about it realized that it was too hard for this use for me, the Kitayama being softer will leave a more even kasumi finish-less faceting.
I am interested to see what you discover.

 

[ModRQC]

Had a little laugh when I saw where you are going next in your stone journey

I had a Snow White 8K, and have an Arashyama 6K and a Kitayama 8K. I discovered that the Arashyama is just too fine for everyday kitchen knife use-its languishing in the stone box. I use the Kitayama as my last step in yanagiba sharpening, had the SW for that use but after reading about it realized that it was too hard for this use for me, the Kitayama being softer will leave a more even kasumi finish-less faceting.
I am interested to see what you discover.

Thanks for direct insight on the choice at hand. BTW, since I seem to remember it was you last time around who was adamant I should get it, the NP3K is already in the cart so to speak, hence why not mentionned here as a choice.

Two questions if you don’t mind: should I gather from your POV that the Kita has the more bite for kitchen edge despite being finer? And would you rather say it’s a very fine edge that still bites, or a biting edge that’s fine enough?

Also, have anything to say about SW edge itself, since polishing capacities are not my first aim here?

 

[KingShapton]

the NP3K is already in the cart so to speak

The number of your stones seems to be growing fast ... are you counting?

 

[dafox]

I didnt mention the Chosera 3000 because I thought you were looking at 6k or greater, an edge beyond the usual 3-4k for everyday good quality kitchen knives.

I can't comment on the SW as I sold it without even using it. The Kitayama is only being used to slice fish with a yanagiba, so not paying attention to bite.

 

[ModRQC]

The number of your stones seems to be growing fast ... are you counting?

It will make 17. Then there’s a special place for a SP220 one of the Shapton Glass or two and so. But I won’t accumulate. Goal is to make a choice as to the ones that suit me best for all situations and sell the rest. Simplify this too. Just like knives... took about 25 of them before I could finally be sure enough of my preferences and reduce the numbers without regrets.

 

[demirtasem]

Goal is to make a choice as to the ones that suit me best for all situations and sell the rest. Simplify this too. Just like knives...

Please share your experience. Happy to read.

 

[inferno]

what grit and for what steel?

i've found most ss lose bite after 4k or so.
carbons lose bite after 6-8k or so.

i like the gray glass 6k and pro 8k. but those are rock hard stones that dont slurry.
cerax 8k is really nice. good for kasumi too. but it takes forever to dry.

my new favorite high grit stone is the bester/imanishi 10k. it feels really nice and creamy, very good finish for monos, not so good for clad (low contrast). it releases a bit of abrasive. dries in a few h. i like the edges but i dont know if they're really that bitey. its more of a polisher i guess. i think its a resinoid.

 

[ModRQC]

what grit and for what steel?

i've found most ss lose bite after 4k or so.
carbons lose bite after 6-8k or so.

i like the gray glass 6k and pro 8k. but those are rock hard stones that dont slurry.
cerax 8k is really nice. good for kasumi too. but it takes forever to dry.

my new favorite high grit stone is the bester/imanishi 10k. it feels really nice and creamy, very good finish for monos, not so good for clad (low contrast). it releases a bit of abrasive. dries in a few h. i like the edges but i dont know if they're really that bitey. its more of a polisher i guess. i think its a resinoid.

Interesting that you bring up steel this way, thanks! Gives me another perspective. Have you tried the Kitayama?

 

[zizirex]

Heya guys!

Arashiyama, Kitayama, Morihei Hi 6K, Morihei Karasu 9K...

Want the most refined possible edge that has just "that" amount of bite, no more. If it polishes, it's all well, but I really really want to focus on edge refinement. Still, I want a usable kitchen edge, not a razor.

Other suggestions? Naniwa Snow White?

Have at it please!

Morihei 6K. Done.

Please close the thread already.

PS. I have 3 of them and have try the edge from all of them

 

[4wa1l]

I've got a very nice edge using the Kitayama straight from a chosera 800 on AS steel but I think this probably isn't as refined as you want. Surely there has to be some coarser teeth remaining using this combo. Still a great useable edge though.

@zizirex I'm also interested in the Morihei 6K. What makes it so good?

 

[zizirex]

I've got a very nice edge using the Kitayama straight from a chosera 800 on AS steel but I think this probably isn't as refined as you want. Surely there has to be some coarser teeth remaining using this combo. Still a great useable edge though.

@zizirex I'm also interested in the Morihei 6K. What makes it so good?

Nice contrast, brighter polish on core and darker hazy on cladding. Toothier edge compares to Arashiyama. Morihei Karasu is way too fine for most Knife (I have it for Razor and Chisel/Planes). Arashiyama is not bad, but Morihei is Arashiyama on Steroid, what Arashiyama can do, Morihei can do it the same and much faster.

 

[ModRQC]

Well I tried the Konosuke out of SP5K. Got to say that for stainless that can support it it’s the end stone of my kit for finest possible edge I can give that still bites just enough. I’ll sharpen a carbon tonight and post back.

 

[KingShapton]

Goal is to make a choice as to the ones that suit me best for all situations and sell the rest. Simplify this too.

But a bit of variety / selection is also nice ...

One more thought - you seem to like the Shapton Pros up to 5K, have you ever thought about the Shapton Pro 8K?

 

[inferno]

for me ss starts skidding on tomatos with the 6k. not so with the 4k glass. but i dont have the regular white 6k i have the gray one..

buuut with carbon and the 6k, there is 0 hesitation, then with the 8k it starts hesitating a bit, and then with the 12k its gone, 0 hesitation. it just slides right through everything.

i guess the 2 ends of the spectrum is "saw" and "lazer sword" (or cow sword if you like)
when i get to the 8k the saw teeth is so small so it starts losing bite, yet its not so polished and sharp so it simply splits everything like the 12k does. thats my interpretation of whats going on. to me it makes sense.

i still think the 8k pro is my best overall high grit stone. its fast, dries fast, clogs slowly for its grit. feels like a finer 2k basically. i actually like the name too. melon super there is 0 polishing going on with this one though, it cuts.

sorry for going OT.

 

[KingShapton]

for me ss starts skidding on tomatos with the 6k. not so with the 4k glass.

Are you talking about the white 4k Glass or the gray one?

then with the 12k its gone, 0 hesitation. it just slides right through everything.

Agree with the 12k.

 

[MarcelNL]

That is also what I found with what little experience I have, I'm usually using the blue SP (1500 I believe), then the Koppa, and finish on the cream 12K SP and while the 1500 or Koppa alone are enough for everyday use the next step takes the edge further and IMO makes it last longer. (especially on the Hinoura Nakiri, think in white 2, which has quite high Hardness)

 

[Kawa]

Interessting topic.
I'm always lurking and fantasizing about what stone to buy after my hightest gritt (5000 superstone). Since I joined this forum the undertstanding was talked into me that I dont need it for my kitchen knives.

I'm not a professional cook who depends on his knives performance. I'm simply a nerd who got a fetish for sharpening

I'm feeling the same as @ModRQC about naturals stones. Too expensive for my hobby. I can afford, but wont afford to buy a lot of stones purely to test. Same goes for knives. Once in a while I convince myself i can buy something new for my hobby, just like the wife keeps buying shoes...


Happy to read along and might make a desission afterwards.



Without hijacking this topic, how does the superstone 5000 compare to the stones mentioned in the opening post? I keep reading the superstone series finishes higher then their number suggests and I also notice that the higher the gritt number, the more meaningless it becomes (an 8k stone by brand X might finish coarser then an 6k stone by brand Y)

I know inferno's experience with 10-15k stones is good aswell. For long I told myself 'dont do it', but also this starts tingling again.....

 

[KingShapton]

And the next one is hooked ... history repeats itself ... the next man, the same story.

No offense, I was also one of the men in the exact same story.

 

[Kawa]

I was hooked up many months ago.

Happy to be Dutch.
We, cheap bastards, can manage money. Ratio over emotion!

We classically go like, looking looking, asking, fitting -> not buying

 

[KingShapton]

Without hijacking this topic, how does the superstone 5000 compare to the stones mentioned in the opening post? I keep reading the superstone series finishes higher then their number suggests and I also notice that the higher the gritt number, the more meaningless it becomes (an 8k stone by brand X might finish coarser then an 6k stone by brand Y)

If you like the Superstone 5000 and get along with it, then maybe a Superstone 8k or 10k would be worth a try ... at least the costs would remain manageable ..

By the way, the SS 5k leaves a significantly finer finish than 5k. From my point of view, more would be overkill for use in the kitchen .... but also a lot of fun ....

 

[inferno]

Are you talking about the white 4k Glass or the gray one?



Agree with the 12k.

i have the white 4k. my standard finisher for everything.

 

[inferno]

i also have the 12k superstone. its a polisher. probably my best mirror polisher. quite slow for its grit. clogs easy, rock hard. splash and go. very shiny results. almost true mirror.

 

[Benuser]

The Snow-white offers both bite and refinement. Ever tried Arkansas? Have a hard one who offers a terrific bite. Followed by a hard black one to remove the last burr remnants. I use them — very old school — with saliva. No real polishers, though.

 

[ModRQC]

Morihei 6K. Done.

Please close the thread already.

PS. I have 3 of them and have try the edge from all of them

What I'm worried about with the one, or the Arashiyama, is that SP5K is quite, quite fine. Most 4K-6K that are appreciated have an edge described as toothy. I won't do me much good to get a stone barely finer that SP5K that has a good amount of bite. Better refine on Rika if some more tooth is what I want.

 

[ModRQC]

The Snow-white offers both bite and refinement. Ever tried Arkansas? Have a hard one who offers a terrific bite. Followed by a hard black one to remove the last burr remnants. I use them — very old school — with saliva. No real polishers, though.

If SW wasn't like twice the price of any other choice... I'd probably have chosen it already.

 

[ModRQC]

for me ss starts skidding on tomatos with the 6k. not so with the 4k glass. but i dont have the regular white 6k i have the gray one..

buuut with carbon and the 6k, there is 0 hesitation, then with the 8k it starts hesitating a bit, and then with the 12k its gone, 0 hesitation. it just slides right through everything.

i guess the 2 ends of the spectrum is "saw" and "lazer sword" (or cow sword if you like)
when i get to the 8k the saw teeth is so small so it starts losing bite, yet its not so polished and sharp so it simply splits everything like the 12k does. thats my interpretation of whats going on. to me it makes sense.

i still think the 8k pro is my best overall high grit stone. its fast, dries fast, clogs slowly for its grit. feels like a finer 2k basically. i actually like the name too. melon super there is 0 polishing going on with this one though, it cuts.

sorry for going OT.

Ok so the Glass 8K is not a good choice, the Glass 12K is fine as hell yet still splits food... but you're recommending me the SP8K, not the SG12K, still...

 

[inferno]

Ok so the Glass 8K is not a good choice, the Glass 12K is fine as hell yet still splits food... but you're recommending me the SP8K, not the SG12K, still...

no not really.

i recommend the glass 4k for stainless as the upper one for bite.
then the glass 6k gray for carbons (i guess the 6k white will work too it might even be better).

then we have a bit of nomans land, where you start losing bite but gaining "polish"/refinement, the 8k pro.

then we have the 12k pro that makes stuff so sharp so it doens't need any teeth. first knife i tested this on was a yoshikane skd11/d2 and it got so sharp i was a bit afraid of using it. and this goes in contrast to the common wisdom that "d2 is so coarse grained so it can only handle a 320 edge" bla bla bla..

so i guess i'm recomending the 4k glass, 6k glass, 8k pro, and 12k pro