K-sabatier Carbon line. Any good ?

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HappyamateurDK

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Hey..

Anyone here who is familiar with the K-sabatier Carbon line.. are they any good. Or rubbish like most Sabatier today ?

Thanks. Have a nice weekend 😊
Søren
 

Benuser

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The last new one I saw was a few years ago, already. Fit&Finish rather miserable, profile and geometry changed compared to the historical ones — heavier, less distal taper, much higher tip. Bents, warps and overgrinds are perfectly common. Steel even softer than the vintages. Price very reasonable.
Strange as the same firm produces a really excellent modern stainless in 14C28N with G10 handle with Fit&Finish at the highest level — the 200 series.

As for the vintages it's pure lottery. Some excellent, some expensive project knives. Prices have risen dramatically.

If you're looking for a traditional European carbon you may consider the Herder's 1922. Profile very close to the old French one, steel C75W @60Rc. Important difference: balance point at the bolster, not forward as with the French.
DSC-0003.jpg
 

HappyamateurDK

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Thanks for your input.

I will look at the Herder. It might be the pictures tricking me. But I think the profile of the Sabatier and the Herder looks pretty similar.

I will go look at the Sab tomorrow and inspect fit&Finnish myself.

But I must say that there are not many western carbon knives out there on the market 😊
 

Qapla'

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But I must say that there are not many western carbon knives out there on the market 😊
For western-made ones, it depends on your price point. They aren't common among production-style knives.
If you're open to western-handle Japanese gyuto's, there are many choices. Here are some:

https://www.hocho-knife.com/sakai-takayuki-aoniko-blue-2-steel-chef-knife-gyuto-240mm/
https://www.japaneseknifeimports.com/collections/suien/products/suien-vc-240mm-gyuto
https://japanesechefsknife.com/coll...-180mm-to-360mm-8-sizes?variant=8134572081249
https://www.korin.com/HSU-HCGY-240
https://www.korin.com/HTO-HCGY-240
 

HappyamateurDK

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View attachment 86774
The 23cm Herder and a 25cm modern Sab.
Looks nice booth of them. Besides the Sab being longer. I still find it hard to see any major difference in profile. I guess it will be more obvious when you handle them.

But I do admit the herder is a beautiful knife. I am tempted. But it is also almost double the price with shipping from Germany. Can't buy it here in Denmark.
 

HappyamateurDK

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Thanks for your input. But the user wants something he can maintain with a honing steel 😊
 

SteveL

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I have three: 3", 6", and not-quite-8". Unfortunately, I would be constrained to echo this: "Bents, warps and overgrinds are perfectly common."
 

Benuser

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Thanks for your input. But the user wants something he can maintain with a honing steel 😊
The Herder is very thin behind the edge. Maintenance with a Dickoron Micro is perfectly possible but should be done carefully. A more robust option were the Pallarès Solsona, C60 @60Rc.
IMG_20200711_223223.jpg
 

Benuser

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Thanks for your input. But the user wants something he can maintain with a honing steel 😊
Have used a common, fine honing steel under harsh conditions — welfare kitchen, carbon Sheffield on a crappy poly board. When used when performance went noticeably down, it only helped restoring a worn or damaged edge for a very short lapse of time. Example: knife fresh from the stones, steeling after 45 minutes of work, I could use it for 10 minutes again. Steeling again helped for only a few minutes. What happened here, is the restoration of a failing edge with fatigued steel, instead of abrading it, as we do when sharpening.
In my home setting, I use the Dickoron Micro with one dedicated vintage Sab — much softer than said Sheffield, used on a decent board, only for small home tasks. I use the Micro before (!) experiencing any performance loss. I can go on like that for months, before three edge leading strokes on a fine stone become necessary. The 'need' is actually all relative, you will understand.
I use the Micro a much higher angle than I sharpen at, but it does not leave a microbevel, as I verified with marker and loupe. Important to me, as I don't want to spend my time with removing a microbevel which is always an unpleasant job. By the way, I never found any trace of abraded steel on the Micro.
This explains how members of our German counterparts can report using the Micro as a maintenance tool with the Herder 1922 for about a year of home use, before it requires any sharpening or touching-up.
 

HappyamateurDK

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Have used a common, fine honing steel under harsh conditions — welfare kitchen, carbon Sheffield on a crappy poly board. When used when performance went noticeably down, it only helped restoring a worn or damaged edge for a very short lapse of time. Example: knife fresh from the stones, steeling after 45 minutes of work, I could use it for 10 minutes again. Steeling again helped for only a few minutes. What happened here, is the restoration of a failing edge with fatigued steel, instead of abrading it, as we do when sharpening.
In my home setting, I use the Dickoron Micro with one dedicated vintage Sab — much softer than said Sheffield, used on a decent board, only for small home tasks. I use the Micro before (!) experiencing any performance loss. I can go on like that for months, before three edge leading strokes on a fine stone become necessary. The 'need' is actually all relative, you will understand.
I use the Micro a much higher angle than I sharpen at, but it does not leave a microbevel, as I verified with marker and loupe. Important to me, as I don't want to spend my time with removing a microbevel which is always an unpleasant job. By the way, I never found any trace of abraded steel on the Micro.
This explains how members of our German counterparts can report using the Micro as a maintenance tool with the Herder 1922 for about a year of home use, before it requires any sharpening or touching-up.
I totally agree that the Dick Micro is a brilliant steel. I use mine every time I grap one of my soft German knives.

I was in the store looking at the K-Sab Carbon today. I ended up buying it.As you mentioned, the fit&finnish ain’t perfect.. actually far from. But ain’t terrible compared to a wüsthof I bought recently.

the K-Sab seems pretty straight to me, and the store had it sharpened already, and confirmed that they sharpen them before giving them to the customers because the grinds are of “ inconsistent quality “

think it is pretty nice so far. Time will tell if the user will like it. 😊
 

deanb

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Yeah..a nice touch. They also gave me a tube of Autosol metal polish with it. To remove rust if it should develop rust and not patina. I know such a tube I pretty cheap. But still a nice touch.
One of my hobbies is collecting kitchen knives. I have a moderate collection by this forum’s standard, about 60 knives. Most are high end Japanese knives but I do have some German Messermeister and several K-Sabs. I think the blades on the K-Sabs are quite thin. The carbon steel is pretty soft but does respond well to very gentle steeling. Being soft though does make sharpening easy and they do take a very good edge.

I bought the K-Sabs just because I thought I should have them in my collection but I actually use them quite a bit. I’m a home cook so I don’t know how they would perform in a pro kitchen. Yeah, the fit and finish isn’t great but they’re fun to use. Glad I bought them :)
 

Corradobrit1

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I had a few I ordered on their website and shipped from France. After discovering JKnives I sold them on Ebay. You get what you pay for. The carbon steel took on a nasty grey patina that tainted foods with a metallic taste. There are far better options IMO. I would only buy high carbon stainless Sab knives and still use a K-Sab bread knife with olive wood handle.
 

Kristoffer

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Mine ended up leading me here. Unfortunately I don’t use it very often any more, but I do quite like it. The pointy profile is very good.

Sure, the steel is soft and fit and finish is about what you’d expect from an average TF, but at 75 euros I can’t complain. If nothing else it makes for an indestructible beater.
 

HappyamateurDK

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One of my hobbies is collecting kitchen knives. I have a moderate collection by this forum’s standard, about 60 knives. Most are high end Japanese knives but I do have some German Messermeister and several K-Sabs. I think the blades on the K-Sabs are quite thin. The carbon steel is pretty soft but does respond well to very gentle steeling. Being soft though does make sharpening easy and they do take a very good edge.

I bought the K-Sabs just because I thought I should have them in my collection but I actually use them quite a bit. I’m a home cook so I don’t know how they would perform in a pro kitchen. Yeah, the fit and finish isn’t great but they’re fun to use. Glad I bought them :)
Nice.. I like the rustic old fashion style aswell. 😊

How did you experience the issue with coloration and metal taste in the food ? Was it bad ?
 

Benuser

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I had a few I ordered on their website and shipped from France. After discovering JKnives I sold them on Ebay. You get what you pay for. The carbon steel took on a nasty grey patina that tainted foods with a metallic taste. There are far better options IMO. I would only buy high carbon stainless Sab knives and still use a K-Sab bread knife with olive wood handle.
Has little to do with the Sabs. It's carbon steel and will discolour. C75 isn't particularly reactive. I force a patina and after that, nothing happens any longer.
Most old French stainless are almost impossible to get sharp. Very soft, with large carbides, gummy on the stones. To be avoided.
 

Corradobrit1

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Most old French stainless are almost impossible to get sharp. Very soft, with large carbides, gummy on the stones. To be avoided.
Thats why I only keep the scalloped edge bread knife. Never needs sharpening.
 

Benuser

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In my home setting, I use the Dickoron Micro with one dedicated vintage Sab — much softer than said Sheffield, used on a decent board, only for small home tasks. I use the Micro before (!) experiencing any performance loss. I can go on like that for months, before three edge leading strokes on a fine stone become necessary. The 'need' is actually all relative, you will understand.
I use the Micro a much higher angle than I sharpen at, but it does not leave a microbevel, as I verified with marker and loupe. Important to me, as I don't want to spend my time with removing a microbevel which is always an unpleasant job. By the way, I never found any trace of abraded steel on the Micro.
This explains how members of our German counterparts can report using the Micro as a maintenance tool with the Herder 1922 for about a year of home use, before it requires any sharpening or touching-up.
PS:
I have to add a caveat about the use of the Dickoron Micro. As said, couldn't find any micro-bevel created by its use.
But when sharpening after a few months of use, the steel did badly take an edge. NB: we're speaking here about the simplest carbon steel one may imagine, C75, that behaved like fatigued steel. Had to abrade quite a bit and use a really coarse grit before reaching fresh steel that sharpens as easily as I'm used to with carbons Sabs.
 

HappyamateurDK

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PS:
I have to add a caveat about the use of the Dickoron Micro. As said, couldn't find any micro-bevel created by its use.
But when sharpening after a few months of use, the steel did badly take an edge. NB: we're speaking here about the simplest carbon steel one may imagine, C75, that behaved like fatigued steel. Had to abrade quite a bit and use a really coarse grit before reaching fresh steel that sharpens as easily as I'm used to with carbons Sabs.
Thanks for the update. I bought the Sabatier as a gift. Works great so far, and patina is coming along great.

I also ended up buying the herder 1922 for my self. A whole other animal in more ways. Way thinner and lighter then the Sabatier. And fit&Finnish is also on a higher level. Really nice knife. But I did bring it to a pro sharpener. Because there was a small " bumb " or rise in the edge by the heel. It made the heel not touch the board completely the last 3 cm of the edge. So now I will have to build up patina at the edge again 😊
 
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