KASFLY (CZAR) Ultimate Sandpaper holder

Discussion in 'Knives and Stones' started by pkjames, Aug 16, 2017.

  1. Sep 2, 2017 #31

    Nemo

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    Does anyone know where to get AlOx sheets and fine (>3000) sheets in Australia?
     
  2. Sep 2, 2017 #32

    Nemo

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    It is a very cleverly desinged and robustly built piece of kit. I like the way it holds and tensions the sandpaper- very clever.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2017 #33

    Marek07

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    Try: https://www.thesandpaperman.com.au - they have up to 12k. Also, your friendly neighbourhood panel beater can usually provide at least 3k.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2017 #34

    Nemo

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    Thanks Marek. Yeah, I can get 2500 or occasionally 3000 SiC at the local Autobarn. Good enough to set up for a mirror polish with some metal polish or high grit diamond paste.

    At the sandpaperman, are you talking about the micromesh for the higher grits or did I miss another line of sandpaper?

    Also, I couldn't see any AlOx sandpaper there apart from the (relitavely expensive) micromesh or the (also expensive) adhesive backed lapping film. Once again, not sure if I missed any.

    It's not really a biggie, either way. I was mainly thinking of using it as a non dishing low grit stone for thinning, especially for fixing abused Western knives) and I'm sure that 240 (or even lower) grit SiC will do this cheaply and admirably.
     
  5. Sep 2, 2017 #35

    malexthekid

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    I really don't need this so I wish you lot would stop talking it up.

    I'm still trying to track down SiC powder... can you at least let me finish one sharpening/thinning dream before having me chase another
     
  6. Sep 2, 2017 #36

    Marek07

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    Sorry - it was a rushed response. Anything above 3k is indeed micromesh. Missed your AlOx request totally.
     
  7. Sep 4, 2017 #37

    Marek07

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    Finally got around to using my new holder today...

    Only tried a couple of small tasks but this device is awesome!
    :doublethumbsup:
    As others have said, beautifully engineered, great fit and finish and can perform sanding tasks like nothing else I've tried. Plan to be using it for a number of knife tasks including touch-up stropping mentioned in this thread, possibly using thin 'roo leather in place of sandpaper.

    And of course, James is just delightful to deal with. Very fast shipping even though it was from China!
     
  8. Sep 4, 2017 #38

    Mucho Bocho

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    Marek, I've been messing around with it quite a bit. One significant advantage with this paper holder is that you can get the surface extremely flat and extremely tight. Silicone that's provided his only left me with someone rolled edges
     
  9. Sep 4, 2017 #39

    hambone.johnson

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    agreed with everyone. i originally thought it would only be good for base thinning but with the right paper progression it basically took me into the 3K stone progression just using sandpaper and then i switched over to the stones for just some very light finishing work. i want to get some of the very high grit stuff and see how a paper only edge would fare on edge retention. This is a fantastic product !!!
     
  10. Sep 5, 2017 #40

    Marek07

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    Are you saying that you use the holder without the supplied silicone? Does using the silicone make the sandpaper too soft and hence rolls (or rounds) the edge? Would appreciate your thoughts.
     
  11. Sep 5, 2017 #41

    Nemo

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    My understanding is that the silicone is to allow some "give" in the sharpening surface, a bit like the mousepad trick for convexed edges. I assume that without the silicone, it would give a more linear edge.

    I haven't done the mousepad trick but I have read that it takes a bit of practice to get the convexing just right. The amount of convexing depends on the "give" in the medium and the force that you use to push the blade.

    The problem that I can forsee with this is that as you progress in your sharpening, you tend to press with less force as you refine your edge. This will cause a shallower convex, so you might not actually reach the edge as you try to refine the edge. I wonder whether the mousepad trick might be better used to convex behind the edge but sharpening the very edge with a microbevel?
     
  12. Sep 5, 2017 #42

    cheflivengood

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    I used the silicone for the first time this weekend, Id say the immediate feedback for me was the difference between a soft muddy stone and a hard stone, the finish was a little more even as it contoured to the bevel better.
     
  13. Sep 5, 2017 #43

    Nemo

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    Thanks for that feedback.

    I'll give it a try this weekend.
     
  14. Sep 6, 2017 #44

    Marek07

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    @cheflivengood and @Nemo - thank you both for your comments. Looks like I have a lot more experimenting to do with this versatile sandpaper holder. Definitely ooking forward to experimenting further.
     
  15. Sep 11, 2017 #45

    frog13

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    https://www.instagram.com/p/BY4XVWHgm3O/
    Well, my box came broken and James graciously took care of it in a great way as always. I just had a hip replacement and am grounded to home and bored so I got the pieces out, glued them together, sanded them and slapped some stain on. Not bad for an hour's work, LOL! Now, the device, I use it more everyday, got a selection of 3M lapping paper, this thing works for sure. Been touching up all my knives on it, puts on a crazy fine edge.
     
  16. Sep 12, 2017 #46

    Mucho Bocho

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    Update: So I picked up lots of grit sizes from Lee Valley. Different abrasives too: Allumnium Oxide, Cromium Oxide and Silicon Carbide. Range from

    100um to 0.3um

    Some impressions of the device.

    The holder is able to stretch the paper so tight, actually more than my fingers can tighten. This creates an incredibly flat smooth abrasive surface for sharpening. Initially I though of this device as primarily a stropping tool. But give the pressure you can apply to the paper, I now use it just like a sharpening stone.

    BOOM. See the potential now?

    I know, its kinda hard to wrap your mind around it, if you think about the limitless possibilities give whats available in sheet backed abrasives. Just going to Home Depot you could come home with 30 or more different sheets of abrasives.

    But it really gets fun when you know that your little Pet in X steel loves a 30um A/O scratch before a quick rub on a 5um SIC before a gentile petting on a 0.5um CRO.
     
  17. Sep 12, 2017 #47

    Nemo

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    Any impressions on differences between abrasives? Or brands?
     
  18. Sep 12, 2017 #48

    hambone.johnson

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    Mucho.

    I found the same thing. I bought 5 grits from 80-600 and initially just planned on doing some aggressive thinning on a couple of cleavers to get the shoulders off them. Once I got up to 600 the knives had such bite and teeth on them I gave it a quick strop and it was done. Extremely sharp!

    I'm going to pick up the rest of the grit progressions, and like you, experiment with just how far you can push the device.
     
  19. Sep 12, 2017 #49

    cheflivengood

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    Used it to stretch some bacon. Threw it in the oven and bacon came out nice and flat and the device is fine, great product.




    :justkidding:
     
  20. Sep 12, 2017 #50

    TheCaptain

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    Some say this device is stolen alien technology and that mankind is not advanced enough to understand all it's mysteries, all we know is that it's called the Kasfly!

    Ok, lame but I had to go there.

    I know it was stated earlier that you could assemble one cheaper yourself, but then you'd be out the pure pleasure of using an exceptionally well made tool. Money very well spent IMHO.

    So, I have a cleaver which I'd like to thin a bit. I think this is perfect for the task. Anyone want to suggest a sandpaper progression? My first thinning attempt so I completely own the fact that I don't know what the heck I'm doing.
     
  21. Sep 12, 2017 #51

    Mucho Bocho

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    Captain, Just use a series of 3M papers at the hardware store. You can get a series from 120 to 2500 for about $25. Then slice them up and mount them. I use a paper cutter. I haven't tried but might also try sharpening with oil.
     
  22. Sep 13, 2017 #52

    Yet-Another-Dave

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    It sort of depends on what you can source locally. I've had better luck using (a little slightly) soapy water when using sandpaper, so ideally you'll find wet-dry paper. I haven't found good selections in coarse grits around here though. Depending on your luck, sanding belts might be your best bet. (Widths might be off, but very easy to cut to length.) I've found the ceramic abrasive ones, under different brands, actually work pretty well on steel. As you go finer, you'll have not only what the local hardware (or big box) store carries, but also auto parts & hobby shops.

    If you're willing to wait for an order, 3M makes Aluminum-Oxide and Silicon-Carbide sheets. I linked some examples I know off hand, but for the KASFLY you'd prefer non-PSA sheets and will want to search around. I know there are also diamond sheets, in the finer grits at least, but my example is too small for the KASFLY so you'd definitely shop around.

    ETA: I kept looking and found a post (on a woodworking forum) saying Otto Frei carries 3M products that LV doesn't. (I'm finding their site frustrating to navigate, but...) Here are two examples of 3M film Coarse and Medium assortments.

    Good luck (and let us know what you learn! Thanks.)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  23. Sep 13, 2017 #53

    hambone.johnson

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    Captain,

    i thinned 2 cleavers recently (mostly because thats all i use :biggrin:) they were both stainless steel and had some decent shoulders that needed to be blended. I ended up thinning them both about 1/2 an inch up the side of the cleaver. i used 80 grit to get a lot of the work done. then 120, 220, 320, 400. most of the work was on 80 and 120 and the 220, 320 and 400 i spent progressively less time. the 400 really didnt remove metal so much as work scratches out. To tell you the truth i stopped both knives at the 400 grit and they were as sharp as i probably could have gotten on a stone so ive just been using them as is and they are performing really well. ive pasted a couple of previous posts from some well known individuals about how to go about thinning so as to not waste time or provide false information. i also bought the same sandpaper that cheflivingood posted on page 2 as a link. it worked really well. spent maybee 40 or 50$ on sandpaper and used a sheet of each. its a pretty efficient process.

    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...g-Gesshin-Hide-225-mm-guto?highlight=thinning

    http://www.kitchenknifeforums.com/s...ing-School-Thinning-Lesson?highlight=thinning
     
  24. Oct 14, 2017 #54

    Mucho Bocho

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  25. Jun 14, 2018 #55

    Mucho Bocho

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    With all the talk about stropping materials, I'm going to bump this thread. I still think the Kasfly is the king of strops. I suppose you could use felt or leather with it too but it really excels with polishing papers.
     
  26. Jun 14, 2018 #56

    Nemo

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    What sort of grit are you talking, Mucho?
     
  27. Jun 14, 2018 #57

    Mucho Bocho

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    That’s what’s so cool. Any abrasive backed paper will work. I’ve got AI2O3 and boron carbide papers ranging from 100 to 1 micron. Works great for low grit thinning to ultra polish. Have it your way just like BK.
     
  28. Jun 15, 2018 #58

    mc2442

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    Thank you for bumping the thread as I missed it the first time around. I have been playing around with sandpaper lately and this sounded intriguing so I ordered one.
     

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