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Luftmensch

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If used or worse sharpened, the value would decrese dramatically.
Really? For this level of unicorn?

So long as the knife had been well cared for I doubt the discount would be that large... Short of messing up the grind through amateur sharpening, severely chipping the edge or breaking the tip off from abuse, I am sure the price would be buoyed by enthusiasts capable of minor 'restoration'.


But heck... I'll put my hat in the ring. If there are any Kikuryu out there that have been used to slice a tomato once - I'll make a discounted offer :D
 

Corradobrit1

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Really? For this level of unicorn?

So long as the knife had been well cared for I doubt the discount would be that large... Short of messing up the grind through amateur sharpening, severely chipping the edge or breaking the tip off from abuse, I am sure the price would be buoyed by enthusiasts capable of minor 'restoration'.


But heck... I'll put my hat in the ring. If there are any Kikuryu out there that have been used to slice a tomato once - I'll make a discounted offer :D
Tomato? Do you know how acidic those things are? That is Kato abuse pure and simple
 

Luftmensch

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Tomato? Do you know how acidic those things are? That is Kato abuse pure and simple
True... Let me extend the offer... I'll make a very fair price for any junk Kikuryu that have been in the same room as a tomato more than once. I will also consider Katos that were near citrus so long as they come in their original box with a saya.
 

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Sharpchef

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i don't get what you're saying sebastian. the kato westerns aren't the same--the quoted one is a kikuryu and the one you refer to is a workhorse. what am i missing?
You don`t cut with kikisomething.. .You know.. It just looks like a bad polished kind of 2 bad steel cladding ;) . If a western kiki kato would be at 500 Dollar with that F&F it would be ok.... :) .

I am nearly 40 years old now, and my body my brain etc. are not longer as good as they are with 30 years.... So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ? They are much too high... Now they cost much more because the old man is for sure getting better every day.... So nice romantic feelings about knifes....


Greets Sebastian.
 

Corradobrit1

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I am nearly 40 years old now, and my body my brain etc. are not longer as good as they are with 30 years.... So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ? They are much too high... Now they cost much more because the old man is for sure getting better every day.... So nice romantic feelings about knifes....
Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion. Its not like they are pounding away with a hammer by hand. They use power tools. Kiyoshi Kato looks great for his age. Shiraki is also in his 70's and apparently back at work after a short break. The Morihei line of soft iron clad TF's are forged by a 75 year old. The list goes on......

Romanticized maybe. But why shouldn't we celebrate someone who has dedicated a 50 year career in the pursuit of one goal, following generational traditions. These guys are a dying breed in todays society.
 
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Sharpchef

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Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion. Its not like they are pounding away with a hammer by hand. They use power tools. Kiyoshi Kato looks great for his age. Shiraki is also in his 70's and apparently back at work after a short break. The Morihei line of soft iron clad TF's are forged by a 75 year old. The list goes on......
This is simple marketing... So they were not as good as they were young ? So what about Jiro ? Everybody believing things like this get fooled by the guys who sell the stuff. Sad but true.
The same thing happens with KAI Shun, they promote with samurai tradition... Kato dealers (swordsmith old etc....) etc. nothing else... And i believed it too, but no more knifes that look like crap, cutting good but edge retention is not better then any Wüsthoff/Global etc...
400 ok but 1200 right now no way...... B/S/T prices are a joke.

Greets Sebastian.
 

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This is simple marketing... So they were not as good as they were young ? So what about Jiro ? Everybody believing things like this get fooled by the guys who sell the stuff. Sad but true.
The same thing happens with KAI Shun, they promote with samurai tradition... Kato dealers (swordsmith old etc....) etc. nothing else... And i believed it too, but no more knifes that look like crap, cutting good but edge retention is not better then any Wüsthoff/Global etc...
400 ok but 1200 right now no way...... B/S/T prices are a joke.

Greets Sebastian.
I see you now Sébastian, you were trying to make a joke. It would be funnier if what you say is true. Edge retention not Any better than wustof or global ? Lmao I'm no Kato fan boy - I prefer toyama - but after having used Kato for the past 5 years I can unequivocally say that this is false.
 

Luftmensch

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So why pay for this old man`s (retirement is not a joke, it makes sence) medium class knifes prices like the shown ?
Because they are still great knives? Because people do still value the skill it takes to become an artisan. Because people do like the romance. So long as these people continue to hold the belief that these qualities are worth paying for, the price will be what it currently is...

... So rephrasing the old 'are Kato and Shigefusa over priced?' question is really just flogging a dead horse.

Sorry but I completely disagree. Maybe its a cultural thing, with the West being more in tune with the concept of forced 'retirement' at 62-65, but there are plenty of examples of older Japanese gentlemen well into their 70's, forging knives with no obvious decrease in quality or passion.
+1
 

Luftmensch

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As beautiful as Yo-Katos can be, I think Shigefusa westerns are more special - the bolsters are more elegant (to my eye). The transition from blade to handle on the Yo-Katos is abrupt and more 'rustic'.
 

Corradobrit1

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Here's my preference based on aesthetics and performance factors
Kato Kikuryo>Yo Shig Kitaeji>Yo Kato>Wa Shig Kitaeji
 

Matus

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A friendly and only reminder - this is a 'Kato alert' thread. Take the discussion about edge retention, Wushofs and Jiro to a separate thread. Thank you.
 
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Matus

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Since we do not have a dedicated thread, I - for the sake of transparency - am posting the following information here : Sharpchef requested his removal from KKF and we honored his wish without further due. I personally feel sorry that it ended up this way. Sharpchef did bring some interesting views and also some fresh wind.

Please do not let me to keep you off topic any longer. Thank you for understanding
 

alterwisser

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Since we do not have a dedicated thread, I - for the sake of transparency - am posting the following information here : Sharpchef requested his removal from KKF and we honored his wish without further due. I personally feel sorry that it ended up this way. Sharpchef did bring some interesting views and also some fresh wind.

Please do not let me to keep you off topic any longer. Thank you for understanding
this as well ...
 

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There is a 240 Kato standard in blue2 for auction selling for 1400$
Also a Kato KU santoku 155m which was pretty cheap.
 
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