Hey all, Just wondering what are the major differances between these 3 if they are all 240 gyutos. I believe the ku finish is blue steel but unsure of the other two. Thanks for clarifying my noobness
Kato std, wh or ku
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Corradobrit1
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Kato is using B#2 exclusively for all his knives as far as I'm aware. STD and Ku 240's have an edge length of @230 and usually 50mm tall. The WH 240 (Migaki and Ku) is oversized and taller by a couple mm's. The profile is different too. WH have more belly at the tip. I've also noticed the DT is more pronounced for the WH blades ie thicker at the tang, and therefore tend to be heavier (although there are exceptions).
Thanks! Kinda what I thought, I really love my std and was wondering if I should start looking for a wh or if the ku is worth the extra $
Panamapeet
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They are all worth the extra $$
lol, thats exactly what I thought
WH and STD have the same grind (I have seen WH weighting anywhere between 235 - 280g , so keep in mind there there is a variation and the same will be true for STD), but as was mentioned the WH is taller & longer. Mine is just under 240g, 54mm tall and 245 on edge.
STD has been long time made from white#2, Kato has been using blue #2 in the past year or two.
It is not known what steel WH is made of, apparently Kato himself does not know. He has a way to process it that works and that's it. So there is no point to try to hope it is something "rare and special", it may well be white#2 or maybe some old Swedish steel, who knows. Unless someone sends their WH in for metallurgic testing, we may never know.
KU is wide bevel and apparently has thicker grind than the two above.
STD has been long time made from white#2, Kato has been using blue #2 in the past year or two.
It is not known what steel WH is made of, apparently Kato himself does not know. He has a way to process it that works and that's it. So there is no point to try to hope it is something "rare and special", it may well be white#2 or maybe some old Swedish steel, who knows. Unless someone sends their WH in for metallurgic testing, we may never know.
KU is wide bevel and apparently has thicker grind than the two above.
Simple...
Workhorse = my favorite profile, best geometry (I assume due to different profile), not so great heat treat... way too brittle
STD = best heat treat and steel properties (White #2 not blue...), good geo but I liked the Workhorse ones better, profile not really my favorite
KU Workhorse = worst cutting performance, most rustic, also way too brittle...
KU STD = ??? ...haven't tried
Judging on 7 katos I've owned over the years, most of them bought NIB. If I could choose I would take a Workhorse profile/geo with his STD White#2 heat treat
Really don't understand the hype on the KU ones...
Workhorse = my favorite profile, best geometry (I assume due to different profile), not so great heat treat... way too brittle
STD = best heat treat and steel properties (White #2 not blue...), good geo but I liked the Workhorse ones better, profile not really my favorite
KU Workhorse = worst cutting performance, most rustic, also way too brittle...
KU STD = ??? ...haven't tried
Judging on 7 katos I've owned over the years, most of them bought NIB. If I could choose I would take a Workhorse profile/geo with his STD White#2 heat treat
Really don't understand the hype on the KU ones...
Corradobrit1
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Mostly rarity. He makes fewer Ku knives. @ynot1985 seems to think they are better than the Migaki but I'm not sure why although he has plenty of experience so maybe can weigh in with his reasoning.
Panamapeet
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To be honest the 210 ku wh i have is one of the best i have tried...
The 240 KU.i used was a wedging monster, wouldnt even entertain the idea.of paying even half of the going rate. Even if some.are saying they think they perform better it sounds like to me that means they are inconsistent so id avoid that one unless.you are familiar with a seller or.get a chance.to use first
I mean it's all a question of perspective and taste. Some like wedgier blades. I do sometimes. I really like my Heijis for example, but the Kato KU was way worse in that area...
Although food release is quite good on the other hand...
ynot1985
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I’m not sure how you came to that conclusion. I collect both KU Katos and Shigs. That doesn’t mean it cuts better. I have more kasumi than KUs
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I have tried four wh in the last 6 years and I have one std in shirogami 2 and a Ku in aogami 2
Definitely the Ku is the thickest but still is a good cutter
The standard is still thicker then the wh and a thin bit shorter at the heel,same grind on both
Best of all ? The STD
Worth have all of them and even more ?
Yes
Damascus?I would love to have one ,but I got two mazakis Damascus instead
Definitely the Ku is the thickest but still is a good cutter
The standard is still thicker then the wh and a thin bit shorter at the heel,same grind on both
Best of all ? The STD
Worth have all of them and even more ?
Yes
Damascus?I would love to have one ,but I got two mazakis Damascus instead
Corradobrit1
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Thanks for all the clarity, still might have to get a ku to see for myself
Panamapeet
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Kikuryu is average
Corradobrit1
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In what way do you think the Ku is 'so bad'? I would say its extremely consistent across the different models. It doesn't rub off unlike some and isn't an 'applied' finish. Ku is supposed to be rustic and imperfect which is how the forge makes it. If its perfect and even like say on a Shig it raises questions.
I would also say the Kato Dammy is a level above Shig Kitaeji in aesthetics and finesse.
user 16756
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my workhorse has just about the worst edge retention of any knife I own, though it's fine still. definitely in the same ballpark as decent white steel treatments.
I just like the rest of the knife so much idc.
although tbh white steel retention has never bothered me much anyway. like some kind of psycho I actually like sharpening.
Corradobrit1
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In terms of edge retention I would say my 210 WH 'mystery white' is noticeably better than W#2. TBH I actually prefer it to the B#2 core steel. The grind is super thin above the edge but is very stable and maintains that edge just as well as my TF W#1 blades.
ynot1985
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I’m not disagreeing on this but I like the marks on the KU. Almost like a fingerprint. Very handy to track the history of ownership based on the marking vs what people had posted online.
I have seen people claim to own knives that they don’t actually own. Based on the markings, it’s physically in front of me
Corradobrit1
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Such odd behaviorI have seen people claim to own knives that they don’t actually own. Based on the markings, it’s physically in front of me
Yes and still believe this. I like Kato's Ku more than his migaki. It's about its geometry its ease of maitenance and character. The markings on the KU show the hammer blows the marks of the maker in the fabric of the knife. I also like the contrast from the black ku to the soft polished steel, the way the kanji are more texturized.
Plus they are excellent cutters with great edge retention.
I understand the appeal and aesthetics of the KU but at least or the KU Workhorse Nakiri your statement is really just wrong.
Edge retention not good...
Edge stability not good...
Cutting performance really a big step downwards from the STD and WH Migaki...
Maybe the KU (not WH) Gyuto are very different...
I have the standard and Morihei versions from last year both in blue 2. Same goes for some of his standard nakiri which are bough from Ginza Kikuhide which are also blue2. To be honest not sure what went in the early versions of katos from the wh line, but current knifes are great from my point of view.
I mean look at this choil... Kato WH Kurouchi Nakiri 180, bough 2016
I know choil shots doesn't tell the whole story but here it was accurate...
I mean, it's a pretty knife but also pretty useless...
As I said, of course, I cannot judge how the KU improved since then. Stopped buying Kato's since the prices raised like crazy...
Maybe also it's worse on a rather short nakiri and the thick workhorse type of grind works better on a longer blade I imagine
But for reference. Also bought a Shig KU 180 Nakiri at the same time which was a significant better cutter than the Kato..
Iggy
I know choil shots doesn't tell the whole story but here it was accurate...
I mean, it's a pretty knife but also pretty useless...
As I said, of course, I cannot judge how the KU improved since then. Stopped buying Kato's since the prices raised like crazy...
Maybe also it's worse on a rather short nakiri and the thick workhorse type of grind works better on a longer blade I imagine
But for reference. Also bought a Shig KU 180 Nakiri at the same time which was a significant better cutter than the Kato..
Iggy
ynot1985
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I mean look at this choil... Kato WH Kurouchi Nakiri 180, bough 2016
I know choil shots doesn't tell the whole story but here it was accurate...
I mean, it's a pretty knife but also pretty useless...
As I said, of course, I cannot judge how the KU improved since then. Stopped buying Kato's since the prices raised like crazy...
Maybe also it's worse on a rather short nakiri and the thick workhorse type of grind works better on a longer blade I imagine
But for reference. Also bought a Shig KU 180 Nakiri at the same time which was a significant better cutter than the Kato..
Iggy
You want to sell that?
You want to sell that?
Did already
Not much room in my kitchen besides my favourite Heiji KU Nakiri
