king deluxe 800 & 1200 - Both, or just one?

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J

JWK1

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My head is spinning with options for my first stone(s). I'm doing lots of research. However, there is another factor that's playing into all of this. I don't have the size chef knife that I want for my general purpose knife. I have a Carbonext 270 gyuto that I used for quite a while. I bought that size because of some advice I got from another person on another forum thought if I had the board room, I would like the larger 270mm knife. After using that for over a year on a nice big board I can say, "No, I do not." I want a 240mm gyuto. I am not equipped at this time to know what specific type of knife I would enjoy the best, so I have decided to go with a lower priced high carbon (because I love high carbon knives). This has come down to the Misono dragon or the Masahirio VC. I will choose one this week.

The point of having said all of this is that my searching has shown me that the lower priced King Deluxe stones really shine on simple carbon knives. My plan for now is to use sandpaper for the heavy work and get King stones for the actual sharpening part. I have a number of high carbon cleavers that I want to play with, so it dovetails into that, too.

My questions:
1. What is the purpose of the 800, 1000, and 1200 grit stones? They are obviously too close in grit size to use in succession.
2. Is it useful or practical to have both the 800 and the 1200, or are they also just too close?
3. Is it worth getting the larger sized stones for sharpening a 240mm knife, or is the typical 8.25" x 2.5" stone perfectly adequate? I would not mind at all spending the extra money on the larger stones if it makes the sharpening so much more pleasant. However, I have no practical experience in sharpening kitchen knives on stones, so I have absolutely no perspective in that area.

I would be very interested to know what makes someone choose one or more of these stones.
 
JWK1 said:
1. What is the purpose of the 800, 1000, and 1200 grit stones? They are obviously too close in grit size to use in succession.
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800-1500 range is about a medium grit range that's good for general maintenance. It can reset bevels without much effort, and the resulting edges will give you a lot of bite. I like this range for softer stainless steels, and for my cleavers. To answer your question, I would pick one in this range, and not all 3.

JWK1 said:
2. Is it useful or practical to have both the 800 and the 1200, or are they also just too close?
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My general rule of thumb is to double the grit (assuming you stay within the same brand of stones) for each progression step. For example, if you get a 1k stone, the next step up I'd look at a 2k or 3k. Similarly, if you want to go down a step, it would be a 300-500.

JWK1 said:
Is it worth getting the larger sized stones for sharpening a 240mm knife, or is the typical 8.25" x 2.5" stone perfectly adequate?
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8.25x2.5 is more than adequate for any knife size. How much bigger were you looking at?

One thing to mention, which you probably already know from your research, is that king stones require soaking prior to use. If you dont mind waiting for it to soak, or if you plan to keep it permanently soaked, then great. However, you may want to also consider splash and go stones instead for added convenience. I havent personally used the kings but depending on the specific line of stones, some dish rather quickly and will require more frequent flattening.
 
I forgot to mention about the soaking. No, I do not mind keeping them permasoaked. It's not a problem for me at all. I don't care about the flattening. I do it with my King combo now (1000/6000), so I know what I'm in for. I don't know the dimensions of the larger stones off-hand.
 
I heard Hyper is better than Deluxe. I had no experience with Hyper, but I do like deluxe, is my first stone.
 
If you only have a king 1000/6000, I wouldn't even think about buying another 800-1000-1200 right now.

Unless you are at the point you already have 20 different stones and just want to try them all.

First I would make sure you have a complete range (with no gaps), same or different brand (doesnt matter that much: two follow up gritts of the same brand might have a complete different feeling).
If you want to extent your hobby after that point, you can buy the same or nearly the same gritt to compare or add nuance.

So if 1000/6000 is your only stone right now, I would go for a coarse stone like 220-400 range and maybe a 2k-4k stone, depending on how much money you want to use.
 
I have used Hyper and Deluxe 800,1000.
Hyper is an aggressive ceramic stone which is made of white al oxide and zircon oxide.
Deluxe is made of cheaper brown bauxite.
For abrasive power, Hyper is at least 2 times of Deluxe.
However, Hyper is over- priced.
You can use similar stone at lower price.
 
JWK1 said:
I forgot to mention about the soaking. No, I do not mind keeping them permasoaked. It's not a problem for me at all. I don't care about the flattening. I do it with my King combo now (1000/6000), so I know what I'm in for. I don't know the dimensions of the larger stones off-hand.
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KingShapton said:
If I have to choose between the King 800, 1000 and 1200, I will always choose the 1200.

Feel, feedback and performance, but that is personal feeling.
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^

I don't have the knowledge to compare them as others do. But my permasoaked King 1.2k is just great.

And even if you have a 1/6k already... they're not that expensive, so get one anyway! ;)
 
mooncake said:
I have used Hyper and Deluxe 800,1000.
Hyper is an aggressive ceramic stone which is made of white al oxide and zircon oxide.
Deluxe is made of cheaper brown bauxite.
For abrasive power, Hyper is at least 2 times of Deluxe.
However, Hyper is over- priced.
You can use similar stone at lower price.
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Overpriced? In what way?

In the case of overpriced, I immediately think of the Naniwa Cholera's or Professional (regardless of the fact that they are very good stones), but I hadn't thought about the King Hyper .. Which stones are similar and cost less?
 
Cliff said:
Is this for edges only? Are you interested in polishing? 800 deluxe leaves a nice kasumi

ETA - don't mind me. It's for edges
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That's OK, I was about to ask why anyone would choose 800 since I gather there's no point in having more than one of these three. So the 800 is mostly for the type of finish, not for edge sharpening?
 
JWK1 said:
That's OK, I was about to ask why anyone would choose 800 since I gather there's no point in having more than one of these three. So the 800 is mostly for the type of finish, not for edge sharpening?
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Well, honestly, I have other stones I prefer for edges. I can't say I have tried it.
 
I would get both. Just because that's the way I am. They are cheap, and if I'm able to afford both that's what will do eventually.

If you are picking just one 1200. Then permasoak it.

Or you could spend a little more and get the chosera 800. That stone is pretty much good for anything but major reprofiling. The king 300 can take care of major repair work, is splash and go, and is relatively slow wearing. A very underrated stone. If I had to pick 2 stones to use forever (and dont have to sharpen high vanadium carbide steels ) I would pick those.
 
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jwthaparc said:
I would get both. Just because that's the way I am. They are cheap, and if I'm able to afford both that's what will do eventually.

If you are picking just one 1200. Then permasoak it.

Or you could spend a little more and get the chosera 800. That stone is pretty much good for anything but major reprofiling. The king 300 can take care of major repair work, is splash and go, and is relatively slow wearing. A very underrated stone. If I had to pick 2 stones to use forever (and dont have to sharpen high vanadium carbide steels ) I would pick those.
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KingShapton said:
:Iagree:
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Good stuff, thanks. I'm formulating a plan.
In looking at amazon, I see there is a king stone 800 part 2 and a king deluxe 800. I can find no info about the "newer" stone. I don't trust the descriptions on amazon at all.

I'm thinking a king 300, king 800, and a shapton pro 1500. The cheap part of me keeps screaming that the SP is more than twice the price of the King. The long range planning part of my brain tells me that in two years, when I still have exactly what I want for sharpening for a great working edge, I won't care about the extra $35. The cheap part says it will be a lot more than $35, 'cuz now you won't be spending over $99 at SS and you will have to pay for shipping. And on and on they go...
 
Garm said:
How is the King 300 speedwise compared to JNS 300, SP 320 or Naniwa Pro 400?
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Dont have any of those to compare to. It keeps up with my cerax 320, and wears A LOT slower. Its slower than my shapton kuromaku 120, but so are most stones, but it can take out the 120 scratches relatively quickly.
 
Garm said:
How is the King 300 speedwise compared to JNS 300, SP 320 or Naniwa Pro 400?
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My JNS300 is faster than my King 300 Deluxe.
The first one is the JNS300; the second, King 300.
JNS 300 is wider, but thinner than King 300.

JNS300 and King300Deluxe.jpg
 
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Marcelo Amaral said:
My JNS300 is faster than my King 300 Deluxe.
The first one is the JNS300; the second, King 300.
JNS 300 is wider, but thinner than King 300.

View attachment 111906
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I had a JNS 300 that I sold a while back, which I've been regretting ever since.
Replacing it would be considerably more expensive than going for the King.
Do they work/act somewhat similarly even if the King is slower? I loved the precision, feel, and slow wear of the JNS.
Probably the most unique coarse stone I've used.

Edit: Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Apologies OP.
 
Garm said:
I had a JNS 300 that I sold a while back, which I've been regretting ever since.
Replacing it would be considerably more expensive than going for the King.
Do they work/act somewhat similarly even if the King is slower? I loved the precision, feel, and slow wear of the JNS.
Probably the most unique coarse stone I've used.

Edit: Didn't mean to hijack the thread. Apologies OP.
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JNS 300 feels somewhat softer releasing more swarf, although it doesn't dish fast.
King 300 is harder and releases less swarf. It works well for setting a bevel, but i wouldn't use it to thin.
 
Marcelo Amaral said:
It feels and looks like JNS 300 have a coarser finish compared to King 300 Deluxe.
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Appreciate the info and pictures!
I agree that the JNS looks quite a bit coarser. Do you have the new or the older version of the JNS? Just asking, because
according to the specs it shouldn't be wider than the King.
Anyways, for my intended use, it doesn't really seem like the King is what I'm looking for.
 
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