Quantcast

Kitchen Knife Glossary redux

Kitchen Knife Forums

Help Support Kitchen Knife Forums:

billyO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
118
Reaction score
98
Location
Portland, OR
Thanks for putting this together. Helps a lot with the acronyms.

Would it be a good idea to add "Pattern Welded Steel - see Damascus" to the termanology portion?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ian

ian

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
5,763
Location
Boston, MA
You know, I think @M1k3’s idea for a google doc is a good idea. I’d be happy to create it, and could give anyone who wants to edit it the necessary privileges. I could make a new thread including a link to the google doc in the OP, and then people could comment on the thread if they want to suggest corrections/additions and aren’t established enough, or don’t want to be bothered about editing the doc themselves. And they could send a pm to someone with edit/share privileges if they want to be added to the list of editors.

I’d be interested to hear about the wiki option too, though, when you hear back, @daveb.

Any other thoughts?
 

Angie

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Jul 29, 2016
Messages
2,343
Reaction score
406
Location
SouthEast
@ian, you can edit this for a long time - I was able to extend your editing permissions here.
It is now a sticky thread as it's an awesome bit of work for our community.

Also, the length of a message is set at 10,000 characters. It can be more and I will consider more but it will apply to the complete KKF, not just one sub-forum.
 

Ericfg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
96
Reaction score
81
Location
SW Floriduh
Best place to ask questions about terms? Here? I just did a search for "faq" and "wiki" and this thread seems best.
Just saw a thread that mentiond a "crowned" spine and choil and that's a new term to me. I assume it means..... I dunno what it means.
 

ian

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
5,763
Location
Boston, MA
I'm guessing it means faceted, like instead of making the edges right angles you make it look like half an octagon or something? Or maybe it just means "rounded". I saw @kennyc used the term, though, so maybe he can tell us. Couldn't really tell from his pics.
 

Ericfg

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2017
Messages
96
Reaction score
81
Location
SW Floriduh
Or maybe it just means "rounded"
Yeah, that's what it looked like, and the specific area (spine,choil) more 'worked on' than just 'eased'. Wasn't sure if it a common, specific term as I'm a noob. Thanks!
 

ian

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
5,763
Location
Boston, MA
Here at KKF, we use terms where the meaning is obvious! (Please disregard the many posts above explaining nonobvious terms.)
 

kennyc

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 17, 2019
Messages
45
Reaction score
30
Location
Vancouver, BC
I'm guessing it means faceted, like instead of making the edges right angles you make it look like half an octagon or something? Or maybe it just means "rounded". I saw @kennyc used the term, though, so maybe he can tell us. Couldn't really tell from his pics.
yea I use "crowned" to mean that the entire spine has been radiused/repolished/beveled to some extent (not just rounding the corners; none of the "original" flat surface of the spine remains). The term comes to me from collecting folders - specifically the CRK Sebenza though I am not sure if they are the originator of this usage of the word
 

timebard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
65
Location
Utah
Thanks for all the work on this!

One term not in here that I've been trying to pin down is Warikomi--from searching around I've seen it used to describe a technique similar to but not quite like sanmai. Different discussions have suggested it means something like "core steel inserted into a cut-open piece of iron," or "cladding wrapped around core steel," or maybe just to refer to any hand-laminated/non-prelaminated sanmai?
 

parbaked

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
1,825
Reaction score
2,069
Location
San Francisco
Warikomi--from searching around I've seen it used to describe a technique similar to but not quite like sanmai. Different discussions have suggested it means something like "core steel inserted into a cut-open piece of iron," or "cladding wrapped around core steel,"
You got it...
san mai = sandwich
warikomi = pita wrap
 

SHOWERDOOKIE

Supporting Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2020
Messages
78
Reaction score
151
Location
Nashville TN
You got it...
san mai = sandwich
warikomi = pita wrap
Unless you’re of the philosophy that a hot dog is a sandwich in which case they’re both sandwich. Warikomi involves encasing the spine in cladding and San mai doesn’t. Maybe other differences(?) as well but that’s what I’ve gathered.
Sidebar: would the bun be the cutting edge or the spine of a hot dog if it were a knife?
 

lid

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
514
Reaction score
708
Don't forget to add the secondary meaning of GLWS - "What a joke. This will never sell."
 

lid

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2017
Messages
514
Reaction score
708
Unless you’re of the philosophy that a hot dog is a sandwich in which case they’re both sandwich. Warikomi involves encasing the spine in cladding and San mai doesn’t. Maybe other differences(?) as well but that’s what I’ve gathered.
Sidebar: would the bun be the cutting edge or the spine of a hot dog if it were a knife?
sandwich.jpg
 

parbaked

Senior Member
Joined
May 10, 2017
Messages
1,825
Reaction score
2,069
Location
San Francisco
Unless you’re of the philosophy that a hot dog is a sandwich in which case they’re both sandwich. Warikomi involves encasing the spine in cladding and San mai doesn’t. Maybe other differences(?) as well but that’s what I’ve gathered.
Sidebar: would the bun be the cutting edge or the spine of a hot dog if it were a knife?
How about this:

San Mai = hamburger.
Warikomi = hot dog

In both cases the meat is the core and the bun is the cladding.
 

timebard

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2019
Messages
53
Reaction score
65
Location
Utah
The spine. When this was invented(?) steel was much more expensive than iron, so you can get a cutting edge using minimal steel. There was a video posted on KKF a bit ago that demonstrated this very well: Youtube AWESOME!
Thanks for clarifying the history of the technique. Makes sense in a context of scarcity. In modern knifemaking where core steel is a relatively small portion of the cost of the end product, what's the advantage of warikomi vs sanmai construction? Is it mostly about demonstrating the smith's knowledge/ability, or is there functional value as well?
 

RDalman

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2015
Messages
1,652
Reaction score
1,041
Thanks for clarifying the history of the technique. Makes sense in a context of scarcity. In modern knifemaking where core steel is a relatively small portion of the cost of the end product, what's the advantage of warikomi vs sanmai construction? Is it mostly about demonstrating the smith's knowledge/ability, or is there functional value as well?
Assuming both are forged very thin tapered as for some kitchen knives, the warikomi is a hair more easy straghtening wise. In this post is a short video series of a warikomi forging. See he even uses a hot dog for steel starter :)
http://instagr.am/p/B6FbK2gHkQt/
 

billyO

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2019
Messages
118
Reaction score
98
Location
Portland, OR
I encourage those with more knowledge than me in these things to chime in, but two possible advantages could be: (1) less carbon/tool steel is needed to make a blade, and (2) the increased(?) toughness of the blade due to less carbon steel in the knife/blade. I put that in parenthesis because this was really only true when smiths had a more rudimentary understanding of the changes in (high carbon) steel that occur during the heat treating process (typically referred to as quenching and tempering). With modern knowledge of tool steel chemistry and modern heat treating methods, one can get even better toughness using a sanmai, or even monosteel construction.
A 3rd possible reason for choosing warikomi construction could be in incorporating the spine of the blade in the patterning of the blade. One mark of a well made sanmai blade is seeing the 3 stripes on the spine that look uniform in spacing and thickness down the spine of the blade.
 

Luftmensch

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2017
Messages
1,138
Reaction score
920
@Angie, @daveb (cc: @ian)

Any update on:
  • Whether the forum software supports a mini wiki?
  • How difficult it would be to implement?
As I said before, I think a wiki is a great fit for this type of information gathering. If the forum software does not support a wiki the decision is easy. If it is difficult to implement, the decision is similarly easy. But if the barriers to implementing one are low, i think it is worth discussing/considering
 

ModRQC

Kurouchi Down!
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
1,220
Reaction score
1,035
Location
QC, CA
Don’t want to be pissed upon, but wasn’t it « proven » on Science of Sharp that a steeling rod, even that of smooth metal, actually removes metal from the edge, thus, doesn’t realign, but sharpens? Don’t remember the exact scientific wording of the mechanical process at play - something to do with surface adherence I think.

If so then the Sharpening Steel definition should at least be revised to include
 

ian

Supporting Member
Joined
Dec 18, 2017
Messages
3,484
Reaction score
5,763
Location
Boston, MA
“Adhesive wear.” I’ve updated the entries for sharpening steel, honing rod, and steeling. One should beware of taking everything at Science of Sharp at face value, but they have some good pictures for sure.

 

daveb

Staff member
Administrator
Global Moderators
Joined
Mar 12, 2012
Messages
11,300
Reaction score
3,056
Nothing has ever been proven on SOS except that one's opinions can be supported by taking really big pictures of really small stuff and calling them them "proof".
 

ModRQC

Kurouchi Down!
Supporting Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2019
Messages
1,220
Reaction score
1,035
Location
QC, CA
“Adhesive wear.” I’ve updated the entries for sharpening steel, honing rod, and steeling. One should beware of taking everything at Science of Sharp at face value, but they have some good pictures for sure.

Nothing has ever been proven on SOS except that one's opinions can be supported by taking really big pictures of really small stuff and calling them them "proof".

Well I wouldn’t know I just mentionned because it came back to my mind. I wrote « proven » with the q marks because I was waiting for people to tell their mind or what they know.
 
Top