Kiyoshi Kato 240 Standard Gyuto Passaround

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mengosmoothie said:
I just want to say that refreshing this PA thread has been the highlight of my week, and given me more FOMO than staying home for coronavirus.
Thanks for organizing @tgfencer
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I have several Katos and I'm still fascinated to hear peoples opinions as we all have different points of reference.
 
Sent it off a few days ago. Still don’t know if or when I want one of my own. The question I’m now asking myself is: Would I balk at the usual price if I didn’t know that they can sometimes be had for less? It does outperform most knives in most tasks.

Sharpenability and edge retention are both superb. It’s hard to compare directly because I didn’t use it at work just in case, only cooked a few meals at home. But I’d say that among white steels Kato beats out the well regarded Munetoshi and Mazaki and is at least the equal of TF. Just a few strokes on a Nakayama brought it right back to “sharp as crap” (technical measurement). Makes me wonder about the special steel in the workhorse version.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Sharpenability and edge retention are both superb. It’s hard to compare directly because I didn’t use it at work just in case, only cooked a few meals at home. But I’d say that among white steels Kato beats out the well regarded Munetoshi and Mazaki and is at least the equal of TF. Just a few strokes on a Nakayama brought it right back to “sharp as crap” (technical measurement). Makes me wonder about the special steel in the workhorse version.
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Just wanted to add that according to the shop and the receipt, this one is supposedly Blue steel. Take that with whatever grains of salt you want.
 
tgfencer said:
Just wanted to add that according to the shop and the receipt, this one is supposedly Blue steel. Take that with whatever grains of salt you want.
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According to those who are in the know, Kato has been using B#2 exclusively for almost 2 years. Most likely for the JNS WH too. I specifically asked Maksim to comment and never got a response to my inquiry.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Oh no kidding - I know there are some out there, wouldn’t know how to tell. If that’s the case then maybe sharpenability is more impressive than I thought and edge retention less so? Does it even matter?
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Not to me. ;) Enjoyment is top of my list of deciding factors.

But to offer my anecdotal observations, I have both WH (one from 2015, one probably older) and standard (white). I can feel the difference in sharpening, but its really pretty minimal unless you’re going through a full progression, where the WH steel takes me a mite longer to sharpen. Both heat treats are excellent as you would expect.
 
GorillaGrunt said:
Oh no kidding - I know there are some out there, wouldn’t know how to tell. If that’s the case then maybe sharpenability is more impressive than I thought and edge retention less so? Does it even matter?
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You raise a good point here. All the workhorses I’ve sharpened were of an unknown steel to me at the time. Even being familiar with shirogami I thought it was something completely different. And it was for me at the time different feeling from anything I had tried.
 
Just prepped lunch with my 210WH Ku. Such a wonderful blade and a real pleasure every time I pick it up. Looking forward to hearing more reviews. Keep them coming. If you like the std you'll love the Kurouchi. Having both styles of 210WH I can see why the Ku gets the accolades and premium. Its justified imo.
 
The knife is on it's way to @Cloudsmoker.

What a great knife! A workhorse for sure with excellent balance. Knife was very nimble for its size and weight, it was an absolute joy to use. Knife just fell through soft produce and devoured a head of cabbage. No wedging in the carrots and onion that I diced. I even used it for a slicer too portioning some pork loins for freezing and slicing another that I had cooked. Knife had a great edge on it when I got it and showed little if any wear through the week. I didn't have to put it to the stones to tell the steel was very well done. I gave it a couple passes on a strop and sent it on it's way still extremely sharp. Something magical about these knives when you have it hand, culture, mystic, history, hype, I don't know but it is truly a badass that is a thrill to wield. Deserves all the hype it gets but 1k for ANY knife is hard to swallow but can see shelling it out if you have the cash.
 
Sorry for the delayed post. Had the chance to put it through a couple days work at the restaurant. This is one of those blades you know is special as soon as you lay your eyes on it. Then you put it on the board and it only gets better. It simply never disappoints. The best all around knife I've used. Fly's right through hard produce, has good food release, and is a really good protein knife. Trimmed up a few top rounds flawlessly, also sliced a few pork loin, and cubed up some pork shoulder. 2 full days of work and it was the only knife I picked up. Then sharpened up beautifully before I packed it up to send it on to @bahamaroot.
I never understood the fascination with these until now. @tgfencer, thanks for doing this passaround. It a great opportunity to get one of these blade dirty for a little bit. Thanks for including me.
 
Loved the knife. For me, the weight and the balance was perfect, so much so that it felt much more nimble than its weight would suggest. Simple, elegant and wonderfully functional. Thanks for the opportunity to check it out.

Heading to Cool Charlie.
 
Kato has arrived, along w Kagekiyo.
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Really hoping I don’t like Kato, I really can’t afford these knives
 
Ditto on the weight and balance. 4 Days in a pro kitchen and it went through everything. Only issues were some big carrots, a little cracking but that was to be expected. Now to see what I can sell to get one.
 
I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.
 
ian said:
I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.
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Haha the only thing that hurts for me, was joining the party late. Prices were on the way up when I got into JKnives back in 2015. I scoffed at the $800 that was being asked saying to myself, no knife is that good. By the time I came to my senses prices had almost doubled. Profiles and grinds have changed over the years and I'm less enamored by some I see just because I know they don't suit my cutting style. The benefit of experience I guess.
 
You shouldn't feel bad with that mind set you should feel superior knowing you wouldn't pay that much for a GOOD performing collectors knife., just because they are good knives docent mean they are worth the price tag these days.

ian said:
I miss the days before this thread when everyone would just crap on Katos while others would buy them for crazy prices on BST. It was so good to feel superior, knowing that I wouldn’t pay that much for a badly performing collector‘s knife. This thread is ruining everything.
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Wdestate said:
You shouldn't feel bad with that mind set you should feel superior knowing you wouldn't pay that much for a GOOD performing collectors knife., just because they are good knives docent mean they are worth the price tag these days.
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Good point. I will decide to believe that all the good, surprised reviews here more like “wow, it’s not a piece of ****”, rather than “wow, it’s twice as good as my favorite $500 knife”.
 
ian said:
Good point. I will decide to believe that all the good, surprised reviews here more like “wow, it’s not a piece of ****”, rather than “wow, it’s twice as good as my favorite $500 knife”.
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They have to be good to a certain degree to become popular and for the prices to go as high as they did... whether they are worth the price is very personal but enough people seem to think so for the prices to stay where they are. It is most likely not twice as good as your favorite $500 knife, it just doesn't work this way. I am wondering how it compares to Marko workhorse that is somewhat similar. Marko is very good in my opinion.
 
Barmoley said:
They have to be good to a certain degree to become popular and for the prices to go as high as they did... whether they are worth the price is very personal but enough people seem to think so for the prices to stay where they are. It is most likely not twice as good as your favorite $500 knife, it just doesn't work this way. I am wondering how it compares to Marko workhorse that is somewhat similar. Marko is very good in my opinion.
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I have a Marko WH 270 and obviously several Kato, including the one on the passaround. The Marko WH are obviously related in design, or rather inspired by, but they are slightly less extreme. My example has less taper, thinner overall spine, thinner grind (less meat aka steel in the upper part of the grind). Thinness behind the edge is roughly comparable though.

Neither is better or worse than the other, but if I was going to suggest one to someone whose knife preferences I didn't know well, I'd definitely suggest the Marko WH. I suspect more people across a broader spectrum would like the Marko than would like the Kato. The Marko WH is simply a less polarizing knife in design, execution, price, fit and finish, and availability. By that same reasoning, however, it is perhaps slightly less unique.

(FYI, I love both my Marko and my Katos. If I was to use one regularly in a pro-environment it would absolutely be my Marko WH.)
 
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