Kkf just a place for knife sale profit?

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chinacats

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Just curious what others think...I'm rather bothered by bst becoming a place for people seemingly just trying to earn a second income...community aspect is toast...imo reselling unused knives (often multiple) is for commercial entities not hobbyists...these sales should be moved to Ebay...seems the paying vendors here should be the ones making money...i see individuals making a couple hundred percent profit on some sales while paying vendors make what? (sorry, that's what minus expenses including kkf vendor fees) wonder how that sits with those guys? Members have no business overhead and this not only seems unfair but imo pointless for those vendors to remain since they can't compete fairly.

Cheers
 
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Elliot

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I have my issues with some of the sellers on BST for sure. I do think some pricing is a bit cut throat and there are people I wouldn't buy from if they were selling at a fair price simply because of my own biases toward their practices.
However, I still find value in BST from LOTS of other people and have acquired some great knives from some nice people at very fair prices.
I think the flippers are the minority. An annoying minority? Sure. But not enough to stop looking.
 

Andrew

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I'm more or less in alignment with Elliot, though agree that at the higher end of the knife spectrum there are some folks behaving in ways I don't personally respect.

Not to drag any specific post in BST, but I've started to wonder if GLWS means something more like "good luck swindling someone"
 

Carl Kotte

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I don’t know, but if @chinacats is right I think it is a bit sad (and then the point is well taken). I have been around here for such a short time that I’m unqualified to judge, one way or the other. But to answer the OP question ’Is KKF only a...’ in the affirmative seems inaccurate. It is not only a place for making extra money on knives (which is of course consistent with the fact that it may be for some).
 

HRC_64

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This is always gonna be a tricky conversation.
 

Luftmensch

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"Kkf just a place for knife sale profit?"

Click baity title :p

No... Please refer to Betteridge's law of headlines. :D

I joined for the community discussion (after a long time lurking) in the hope of learning a little more. And I did! I have only had one really great experience on B/S/T - but it wasnt even 'on the radar' when I joined.

I take your point though. Many sales look like trade in an imperfect market rather than enjoying a hobby with a community of like minded folk... but c'est la vie - thats increasingly the world we live in.
 

DitmasPork

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Just curious what others think...I'm rather bothered by bst becoming a place for people seemingly just trying to earn a second income...community aspect is toast...imo reselling unused knives (often multiple) is for commercial entities not hobbyists...these sales should be moved to Ebay...seems the paying vendors here should be the ones making money...i see individuals making a couple hundred percent profit on some sales while paying vendors make what? (sorry, that's what minus expenses including kkf vendor fees) wonder how that sits with those guys? Members have no business overhead and this not only seems unfair but imo pointless for those vendors to remain since they can't compete fairly.

Cheers
Capitalism at work. Free market. Buyer and seller agree upon price, transaction made, both are satisfied. Valuation is very subjective, a buyer will purchase something at the price that it's worth to them—if someone splurges $1.6k on a bloody Kato chicken knife, then good on them and the seller—despite the collective KKF cringe. It's their business, no one else's.

Capitalism is not utopia, BST is far from it, just a marketplace. Fair price vs fair market value don't always match up. I paid about $500 for a new Kato WH, and will likely sell it for more than I paid, if I sell it. By contrast, I paid $120 for a new Kikuichi suji, and would be happy to take $60 for it. My like new 10.5 inch Wustof, which I think I paid $150, I'd gladly give it away to someone I liked.

If a knife is being sold at an inflated price, by someone who'e perceived as a flipper or one who is making a secondary income from selling—then buyer's who have issue should just not make a purchase. Simple.

I know sellers who catch and release at a loss, and those that have a 'pay it forward' attitude just to see the knife enjoyed by another, as well as those who hope to make a good profit—from a buyer's perspective, it's just a product with a price slapped on, whether or not to buy is motivated by need, desire, peer pressure, hype or whatever.

Full disclosure, I've never tried to sell a knife on BST. The knives that I bought on BST were at fair prices, bought from people I trust, under retail—it's like buying anything else, just use your judgement. If there's something fishy about a knife listed as "BNIB" or "flawless," KKF members will often chime in to point out the mis-information or at worse the deception. For buyer and seller, every knife has it's price.

Last thing I'd like to see on BST, are rules imposed by mods dictating valuation or selling intentions.

Regarding vendors—BST is not their place. They have their own platforms from which to sell. The majority of my knives are from vendors.
 
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daveb

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Some valid points in here and the subject comes up regularly. From the cheap seats it appears that 90% of bst is simply one member moving one knife along to another member, usually at an attractive price.

The other 10%? Yes it's abused. But it's not flipped until someone buys it.

@ CC, How's fishing:cool:
 

chinacats

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Capitalism at work. Free market. Buyer and seller agree upon price, transaction made, both are satisfied. Valuation is very subjective, a buyer will purchase something at the price that it's worth to them—if someone splurges $1.6k on a bloody Kato chicken knife, then good on them and the seller—despite the collective KKF cringe. It's their business, no one else's.

Capitalism is not utopia. Fair price vs fair market value don't always match up. I paid about $500 for a new Kato WH, and will likely sell it for more than I paid, if I sell it. By contrast, I paid $120 for a new Kikuichi suji, and would be happy to take $60 for it. My like new 10.5 inch Wustof, which I think I paid $150, I'd gladly give it away to someone I liked.

If a knife is being sold at an inflated price, by someone who'e perceived as a flipper or one who is making a secondary income from selling—then buyer's who have issue should just not make a purchase. Simple.

I know sellers who catch and release at a loss, and those that have a 'pay it forward' attitude just to see the knife enjoyed by another, as well as those who hope to make a good profit—from a buyer's perspective, it's just a product with a price slapped on, whether or not to buy is motivated by need, desire, peer pressure, hype or whatever.

Full disclosure, I've never tried to sell a knife on BST. The knives that I bought on BST were at fair prices, bought from people I trust, under retail—it's like buying anything else, just use your judgement. If there's something fishy about a knife listed as "BNIB" or "flawless," KKF members will often chime in to point out the mis-information or at worse the deception. For buyer and seller, every knife has it's price.

Last thing I'd like to see on BST, are rules dictating valuation or selling intentions.

Regarding vendors—BST is not their place. They have their own platforms from which to sell. The majority of my knives are from vendors.
I disagree...capitalism is jki in a legitimate business. These people are using an unfair advantage. They pay no taxes on their profits, no vendor fees, no business overhead...just profit due to greed... must be nice to compete in a market where you play by different rules than those you're 'competing against'...make that no rules.
 

chinacats

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Some valid points in here and the subject comes up regularly. From the cheap seats it appears that 90% of bst is simply one member moving one knife along to another member, usually at an attractive price.

The other 10%? Yes it's abused. But it's not flipped until someone buys it.

@ CC, How's fishing:cool:
Fishing has been good locally (my understanding)...vision still ass... been scared of my dbs and not even tried the sb (depth perception issues). I actually got a lot out of just checking them out and plan on picking up a cheap Wat. I'll return soon;)
 

chinacats

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I believe that in the spirit of capitalism that maxim should start auctionning (sp?) off any future katos or shigs...fair market value and all that...
 

GeneH

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I just learned what GLWS means...
 

Matus

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Thank you for starting this thread. I strongly dislike the flipping attitude of some members.

Let’s just mention the Kato triplet. Those knives are offered at about double what they were bought for - and most likely via HK or some other tax free zone.

I personally would not mind to - based on my personal perception and mood - boot a flipper here and there :cool: but that may not sit well with many other members.

However DaveB made a very, very valid point. It takes two to flip and buyers are as responsible for the flipping as are sellers.
 

DitmasPork

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I disagree...capitalism is jki in a legitimate business. These people are using an unfair advantage. They pay no taxes on their profits, no vendor fees, no business overhead...just profit due to greed... must be nice to compete in a market where you play by different rules than those you're 'competing against'...make that no rules.
You're missing the whole point I made regarding vendors. Businesses like JKI, CKTG, K&S, JNS all have their own platforms from which to conduct commerce. BST is a place for people (collectors, cooks, etc.) to off-load used knives—even knives listed as BNIB are used, it's like cars, the moment it leaves the lot, it's used.

It would be absolutely horrible if vendors would be allowed to sell on BST, awful idea! Think of cause and effect—businesses with the most resources would dominate BST, you'd have Sur la Table and Cutlery and More posting their products.

As for taxes, many sellers on KKF does have a legal responsibility of reporting profits to the IRS—same as if selling through eBay, Craig's List, etc. The law is a little tricky, but if it's used and selling for less than what was paid for it when new, then you'd likely not need to report it. For those selling "BNIB" knives, or selling for more than what was paid, then technically you're on the hook to pay taxes. It's the same with individuals selling art, collectables, antiques—for instance all the Katos on BST are considered Taxable Income by the IRS, and likely whichever state the seller is in.

And yeah, as a small business owner—taxes, rent, insurance, inventory costs just comes with the territory. Competition from individuals selling a similar product, not an issue, drop in the bucket.

I personally would not mind to - based on my personal perception and mood - boot a flipper here and there :cool: but that may not sit well with many other members.
If you boot these so called "flippers," you'd boot most if not all of the sellers. Defining "flipper" becomes murky at best.
 

GorillaGrunt

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Part of the issue is that there are really two markets: the users, whether pro or home, and the collectors, without any clear distinction between the two or definition of either, and plenty of crossover both with respect to the people and with respect to the knives.
 

JBroida

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You're missing the whole point I made regarding vendors. Businesses like JKI, CKTG, K&S, JNS all have their own platforms from which to conduct commerce. BST is a place for people (collectors, cooks, etc.) to off-load used knives—even knives listed as BNIB are used, it's like cars, the moment it leaves the lot, it's used.

It would be absolutely horrible if vendors would be allowed to sell on BST, awful idea! Think of cause and effect—businesses with the most resources would dominate BST, you'd have Sur la Table and Cutlery and More posting their products.

As for taxes, many sellers on KKF does have a legal responsibility of reporting profits to the IRS—same as if selling through eBay, Craig's List, etc. The law is a little tricky, but if it's used and selling for less than what was paid for it when new, then you'd likely not need to report it. For those selling "BNIB" knives, or selling for more than what was paid, then technically you're on the hook to pay taxes. It's the same with individuals selling art, collectables, antiques—for instance all the Katos on BST are considered Taxable Income by the IRS, and likely whichever state the seller is in.

And yeah, as a small business owner—taxes, rent, insurance, inventory costs just comes with the territory. Competition from individuals selling a similar product, not an issue, drop in the bucket.



If you boot these so called "flippers," you'd boot most if not all of the sellers. Defining "flipper" becomes murky at best.
I think you’d be surprised by the impact and volume of private sales
 

DitmasPork

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I think you’d be surprised by the impact and volume of private sales
Good to hear your perspective—I know little of the knife selling business! With my business, the internet is both curse and blessing—we're always trying to modify our business model.
 

Wdestate

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I just want to know how disappointed people are when they receive a Kato or Shig for 1000+ dollars just to realize it’s no better then like 80% of the knives offered at half the price (or less)
 

DitmasPork

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I think you’d be surprised by the impact and volume of private sales
I guess one of the difference between your business and my business is that the people making what I sell are locked down to exclusive contracts, not allowing them to sell independently or through a vendor in an agreed upon region. I also don't deal in as large a volume as you probably do.
 

McMan

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I just want to know how disappointed people are when they receive a Kato or Shig for 1000+ dollars just to realize it’s no better then like 80% of the knives offered at half the price (or less)
They’d have to use it first to come to that conclusion...
 

DitmasPork

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I just want to know how disappointed people are when they receive a Kato or Shig for 1000+ dollars just to realize it’s no better then like 80% of the knives offered at half the price (or less)
If the collector is passionate about Katos or Shigs, I'm sure they're delighted to possess it at whatever cost. Supply and demand.
 

AT5760

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I haven't used BST, so my perspective is just that of an observer. There are several people here that seem to be moving knives all of the time. I don't perceive them as flippers - to me it looks like they enjoy trying out lots of knives and are moving along those that don't fit their style. That seems to be totally in line with this forum's spirit (to the extent that an internet forum can have a soul), and those people often share their enthusiasm for the knife and provide a mini-review. Educational and hopefully puts knives in the hands of people that will use them. As for "flippers," I don't know enough about the markets to know if someone is "flipping" or not. BUT, if people are scooping up desirable knives from vendors without using them, merely to turn a quick buck, that seems to really go against the spirit of this forum. To me, that seems akin to ticket scalping.
 

milkbaby

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It's a matter of perception IMHO. Although I do not buy knives anymore, almost all the ones I see on BST that I personally find desirable are being sold at a loss, and sometimes a considerable loss at that.

Or maybe it's because I don't really care about Katos with the kanji chiseled like a 5 year old? ;):D
 

DitmasPork

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It's a matter of perception IMHO. Although I do not buy knives anymore, almost all the ones I see on BST that I personally find desirable are being sold at a loss, and sometimes a considerable loss at that.

Or maybe it's because I don't really care about Katos with the kanji chiseled like a 5 year old? ;):D
Look up prices for Fujiyamas, Katos, Shigs. Though true that knives that aren't rare, made by revered makers with low-production output, still available, often sell for a loss, no one would buy them otherwise.
 
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